the rum soaked fist: internal martial arts forum

Jung, demanding proof that the president of a large country is directly responsible for over one thousand deaths is not a very realistic demand. I think it was covered in "A Few Good Men", you can't handle the truth, etc.

General responsibility for a policy, compared to being guilty of a crime, does not require proof that the executive ordered the murders. My question is to what extent is Duterte responsible for a policy as well as words that incite violence and extrajudicial killing.

With over a thousand people dead next to Duterte's remarks, there is an alleged connection that fits a pattern. If you want to fight racism and stupid comments against Filipinos, you don't even need this.

Listen, I want to have an intelligent conversation about this.

Greg needs to clarify what his point is. If he's saying that Duterte is directly responsible for the deaths of people and that he is the head of some clandestine death squad, he needs to prove it. You can prove Al-Baghdadi is the leader of IS. If Greg is accusing me of denial he can easily prove then that Duterte is the head of this death squad.

If he's saying that it is the policy of Duterte that leads to the extrajudicial killings, then he needs to specify what policy, analyze it in context, and explain how it all connects. For example, if the policy is that "vigilantes can kill drug dealers" and if it is demonstrated in the context that it means what it means, then yes, he can make a case. However, if that's not what Duterte meant, then you can't just conclude that that policy leads to extrajudicial killings--that's simply being unfair and not objective. You cannot blame Duterte on a bunch of zealous vigilantes or corrupt cops who misinterprets his "war on drugs" as a murderous free for all against drug dealers and addicts--nowhere does Duterte promote such anarchy. If you're going to have an intelligent conversation about this then you need to consider this. To completely gloss over this fact and other details and immediately assume I'm in denial and that Filipinos need to be educated on how to run the country and not be taken by this political strongman shows one's biased agenda on this issue.

I'm seriously trying to keep an open mind on this and seeking information. And if you or Greg have important information besides the biased garbage that liberal media is feeding us, then show it to us. Regurgitating what I've seen liberal media peddling will not convince me.

LOL! You sound like a Trump supporter.

You didn't answer any of any of my questions, by the way. Yes I know Dude is on trial. I posted his trial remember? If you don't believe anything is happening fine. Every Filipino I see and hear both in person and online believe Dude's words and many support him. He recently stated he needed six more months to finish the job, yes?

Again questions about the principal. Let us forget about the dude for a minute.

My question is why stop at people with addiction issues? I mean if the idea is stop crime and corruption then why not pull Johns out of Brothels and execute them on the streets? Why not execute teens caught drunk driving?

The fact is what someone does in their private time behind closed has little or no effect on your life.

Are you trying to tell me that you have never been high once in your life?

junglist wrote:Listen, I want to have an intelligent conversation about this.

Fair enough. Why did your man get all emotional and curse Obama when Obama said he would ask Dude about the killings?

If he had nothing to hide them why all the emotions and tough guy talk of a drunk uncle?

If you are doing an illegal activity in my city, if you are a criminal or part of a syndicate that preys on the innocent people of the city, for as long as I am the mayor, you are a legitimate target of assassination.
—Davao City Mayor Rodrigo Duterte, February 2009.

As of August 31, police records show 929 drug suspects have been killed in government operations, while 1,507 have been killed by unknown attackers,

Most of the killings now are from vigilantes, the truth whether the dead were guilty or not will never be proved and is rarely questioned. This pretty much means anymore with a gun and a grudge can go out and put a bullet in someone then sling a 'drug pusher' sign over the corpse.

Duterte’s incitement has quickly created a monster, unleashing murderous criminality.

or perhaps just wrong place wrong time

Last week, vigilante groups identifying themselves as the Dagupan Death Squad and the Pangasinan Death Squad claimed the responsibility for killing six individuals in the Pangasinan area.
However, at least one of the casualties of the vigilante killings does not fit the profile of a drug peddler or a drug user.
A 22-year-old college student named Rowena Tiamson, who was also an active member of a church choir, was shot to death by vigilantes. Her family and friends believe hers was a case of mistaken identity.

I used to rent a room in a house in Quezon city, one of the tenants was a 'debt collector / gun for hire', he bragged about killing people regularly. He had a fine collection of military grade weapons. I remember one evening he invited me to check out his new toy, some fancy sight on an assault rifle. He was testing it by following people crossing the bridge to the mall down the road which I found a little concerning at the time, another morning the wheelie bin outside the house was full of dead cats which he had spent half the night filling, it was awful. I moved out shortly after that and then a few days later he called me and threatened to kill me for allegedly scratching his car which was bullshit, pretty sure he had a screw loose. From what I could gather there were many like him in Philippines, corrupt cops, gangsters, mercs. They didn't need much of an excuse to believe someone had made them lose face and that was before Duterte stepped in.

Fair enough, Jung. I think I'm getting some useful perspective from you and Greg in this thread that I wouldn't have had otherwise.

Well this fellow is certainly entertaining.

The return of nationalism to the international scene is certainly making all of the globalists out there wet their panties/Depends.

http://www.express.co.uk/news/world/712 ... e-killings

grzegorz wrote:LOL! You sound like a Trump supporter.

You didn't answer any of any of my questions, by the way. Yes I know Dude is on trial. I posted his trial remember? If you don't believe anything is happening fine. Every Filipino I see and hear both in person and online believe Dude's words and many support him. He recently stated he needed six more months to finish the job, yes?

Again questions about the principal. Let us forget about the dude for a minute.

My question is why stop at people with addiction issues? I mean if the idea is stop crime and corruption then why not pull Johns out of Brothels and execute them on the streets? Why not execute teens caught drunk driving?

The fact is what someone does in their private time behind closed has little or no effect on your life.

Are you trying to tell me that you have never been high once in your life?

1) Trump supporter? Huh?

2) it's not that I don't believe anything is happening. It's just that you have big claims to back up. If you're gonna say that Duterte is responsible, either: 1) prove that he is the head of a clandestine death squad or 2) prove that his policies allow vigilantes and corrupt cops to kill drug dealers without due process.

3) you mean principle? What principle?

4) Your question assumes that Duterte executes drug addicts. Can you prove that Duterte is directly responsible for killing drug addicts? The reason why he doesn't stop at executing drug addicts is because he didn't begin there. That's another claim you need to prove.

5). I don't understand your last question. I have smoked weed maybe once in my life.

Michael wrote:Fair enough, Jung. I think I'm getting some useful perspective from you and Greg in this thread that I wouldn't have had otherwise.

Thank you for keeping an open mind.

God is Mighty

In Brazil, there was a cartoon going around a while back before the Olympics. In it, a child asks "Daddy, if we kill all the drug addicts, will just the good people be left?" "No," said the dad, "the ones left will be assassins."

In America, a cartoon was going around. In it, a child asks "Mommy, if we kill all of the douches, what will be left?" "Only the bags," she said, "will be left."

Yep