The dark side of meditation and mindfulness

[Ron Panunto]

Generally speaking no one is going to do anything that they are not interested in doing in the first place.

Between me, students and friends who have experienced similar phenomena it seems to affect women between their late teens and late 20s the strongest. The women in this state start off becoming very sexually aroused and at some point become what can only be described as "sex drunk." Speech slurs, their bodies become very warm to the touch, cognitive function appears supressed, orally fixated, tactile sensation is greatly enhanced, etc. After that age group the effect turns into a kind of general arousal that is not directed at you.

The men generating the effect were not over their early 30s in age.

Totally ridiculous - you are delusional.

[Peacedog]

Like I said this happened with me a handful of times when I was younger, my teachers and other people I've met reported similar findings. With the exception of Tim Ferris, everyone used a similar methodology. I think Glenn Morris even mentioned something similar happening in one of his books.

As it stands what happened represents a phenomena that occurs infrequently. For someone to generate this into an ability that can be utilized upon demand would require a further refinement of the techniques involved. Also keep in mind that everyone who pulled this off had devoted years of practice with the micro-macro cosmic orbit techniques.

[wiesiek]

Generally speaking no one is going to do anything that they are not interested in doing in the first place.

Between me, students and friends who have experienced similar phenomena it seems to affect women between their late teens and late 20s the strongest. The women in this state start off becoming very sexually aroused and at some point become what can only be described as "sex drunk." Speech slurs, their bodies become very warm to the touch, cognitive function appears supressed, orally fixated, tactile sensation is greatly enhanced, etc. After that age group the effect turns into a kind of general arousal that is not directed at you.

The men generating the effect were not over their early 30s in age.

Totally ridiculous - you are delusional.

You know Ron,
He is maybe not....
I Know one man, who can do such things / change your state of mind very deeply /,
BUT
he has touch you, with intention ,for such strong effect,
however his >energetic force field < could be felt from quite big distance.
His name was Tenga Rinpoche.
SOooo,
Peacedog ability are simply better
It is great honour to be even small part of the board, with such highly developed human been !

MEta-Feta-party is possible too, I experienced contemporary "shamanic" way of the "opening mind" with the little help of the LSD + Meth,- i may confess - it is workin` this way

How it really was - only Peacedog may or may not know...

[wiesiek]

@re.: evil spirit possession
When I was young and trained MA a lot , I wasn`t believer,
Later I realised, that thinkin` >I`m only the one in the cosmos< is stupid...
anyway, as far as I know, when you starting the spiritual training, your "aura" became brighter than most - better visible in the dark. And like light in the night became attractive for the insects, - your mind invites /even not intentionally/ spirits, mostly from lower region of the astral ,
guess what are they..., in the gross : shitty guys of course
BUT
if you don`t invite them or open the gate you`re safe.
However, if you are emotionally unstable, your gates are available for them and you`re inn...

Longer, deeper training = brighter light, it may attract really big shit to pay you a visit,
so
have to train - how to wear and use the protective gear.

[chud]

Clyman tells this same bullshit story.

I know that Gary Clyman's marketing turns some people off, but I actually just met him yesterday (Friday) and I can tell you that he does have the abilities that Peacedog mentioned.

For the record, I know of only five people who can repair people who get into trouble with this stuff. Those five people are: me, Mark Rasmus, Gary Clyman, Tao Semko and Santiago Dobles.

[Peacedog]

Wiesiek,

Yeah, that is pretty much how I've seen it work.

With sufficient effort using the elemental meditations, most people can begin to generate what some refer to as Akasha/ether. The Akashic force manifests as a kind of timeless and spaceless dark purple energy. FYI, working with Akasha is very draining. Most people can only utilize it for short periods of time and then they are tired for a few days. Like most of the subtle energies strength with this can be increased with training, but it always leaves you feeling like needing to take a long nap afterwards. Some of the tantric Buddhist iconography represents this as a thin purple line around the outline of the saint being represented.

The advantage to being able to generate Akashic force is that it forces these spirit figures to leave you alone. It interferes somehow with their ability to manifest and coming into contact with it shreds their spirit form and effectively banishes them. They really don't like this, so once you can pull that off they tend to stay the hell away.

None of this mitigates the sensory gate malfunctions that bring most people into contact with this stuff. However, once you get to the stage of generating Akasha the threatening nature of the experience goes way down.

Chud,

Thanks for the shout out. Gary can always use some good press.

[edededed]

Generally speaking no one is going to do anything that they are not interested in doing in the first place.

Between me, students and friends who have experienced similar phenomena it seems to affect women between their late teens and late 20s the strongest. The women in this state start off becoming very sexually aroused and at some point become what can only be described as "sex drunk." Speech slurs, their bodies become very warm to the touch, cognitive function appears supressed, orally fixated, tactile sensation is greatly enhanced, etc. After that age group the effect turns into a kind of general arousal that is not directed at you.

The men generating the effect were not over their early 30s in age.

Ah, poo. Guess I am a bit late for the party then... Thanks for the description, though - actually, come to think of it, I did hear something similar to this from a qigong teacher, but I didn't know what to think of it then!

Akasha - is there a word for that in Chinese? Or, what kind of practices develop this? (Just in case, you know - I don't like the idea of dark weird things coming at night...)

[Peacedog]

edededed,

You didn't miss much. The few times it happened to me I found it very confusing. It wasen't like there was any kind of warning this was going to happen and it seemed to only last for a few hours at a time. When I was younger, I was decent looking guy, but this stuff was practically Hefneresque without his huge pile of cash and blow.

I think Akasha is a Buddhist, or Sanskrit, term. The term in English is ether, but this is an archaic word not in common usage. Classically this is represented as dark purple force, that is both spaceless and timeless, and is associated with the term "aum."

Functionally, the sound comes off more as a cool rumbling sensation in my body. It is also somewhat narcotic. If you saturate your own body with this stuff, it gives you a break from all of those injuries we rack up as human beings in the course of a lifetime. To a young person this may not sound like a big deal. And even a lot of older people are not bothered by this much on a day to day basis, because they have learned how to ignore the less serious stuff. However, the first time it happens solidly most people enter an extreme state of relaxation that borders on paralysis.

About 24 hours after your first session of working with this stuff directly you will get the infamous Akashik drop. I won't spoil it for you, but expect to spend most of that day lying on a couch drinking Gatorade.

Also, when you can generate this stuff in a circle around the body you can then pull any of the other meditative energies/phenomena out of it in much purer forms than the local environment can provide, which is why most really strong practitioners prefer to use this as their base.

How to generate it?

Most people use one of two approaches.

The first involves establishing what some call equilibrium. In this method you generate each of the elements, most system have either 4 or 5, and band them into their specific parts of the body. When all of these balance the body enters a state of poise where it is physically relaxed, yet alert and aware.

If you practice with the elements in this way for a few weeks, to a few months, most people begin to see a purple color creep into the elements or appear in their mind's eye when meditating.

That is Akasha.

When you can grasp the sound, color and sensation inherent to Akasha then you start working with it directly. Just remember that when you work with the elements, or Akasha, to fully purge the body of these when done. This is not stuff you want to carry around with you as it will screw you up.

The second method involves faith.

People of deep faith universally have large amounts of this stuff even if they are unaware of it. My two best students are both very religious and highly professionally successful due to this. Their faith sustains them. As a method this is something you either have or don't. When they started learning the system I practice, they both got everything with a learning curve that was amazing.

[Ron Panunto]

You mean to tell me that you and Clyman can generate a fifth force acting over a distance? This is absurd. We already have the strong and weak nuclear forces and electromagnetism and gravity and now you and Clyman have a new psycho/sexual force that can drive women to distraction? I think we have a few women on this forum - if so I would like to know how they feel about this ridiculous claim. Clyman is a used car salesman at best and can talk the uneducated into the weirdest crap. Randi, where are you when we need you?

[Peacedog]

Like I said. It happened a few times. It has happened with other people as well. Classically, a lot of the older Grecco-Roman and tantric tales give insight into this as well.

For me, it falls into the category of a phenomena. It happened. Definitely not an ability as I cannot do it upon demand. And it has not happened in a long time.

As for Gary and this kind of thing, you would need to talk to him directly. I am unaware of his working with Akasha as it is not a part of his system to my understanding.

Keep in mind that Gary's primary interests are medicine and martial arts. Both of which he is very good at. The meditative practices support his practice of those two things. I'm not sure how much he cares about the other aspects of this kind of thing.

[edededed]

Thanks Peacedog for the reply. I've learned a few different qigong methods over the years, including of course some circulation methods, but not really anything like elements (except maybe 6 sounds). So I am just trying to match what I know, with some of the stuff you are talking about... (I'd love to talk more)

Can this stuff be developed in IMA practice as well? Some people have talked about a "swimming" feeling when doing bagua, for example - not sure if that is akasha.

[Peacedog]

The 6 sounds have an indirect relationship to the elemental forms and a direct relationship to the internal organs.

In the system I practice we band the elements into the following parts of the body:
- head to bottom of the throat notch: fire (red, ssss sound, and hot)
- shoulders to solar plexus: air (light blue, rrrr sound and light/floating)
- diaphragm to top of hips: water (green, mmmm sound and cold)
- waist to feet: earth (gold, ahhh sound and heavy)

At that point equilibrium initiates and you let it sit there for a few moments. Then you flush out the bands followed by the whole body with vital energy.

Do this twice a day until you start to see the color purple in your minds eye. That is the Akasha. Working with Akasha is a whole topic unto itself.

In terms of dealing with spirit figures once you have developed Akasha it is fairly simple. When one appears wait until it tries to communicate with you. Never speak to it first. Then tell it to leave. If it doesn't, generate Akasha and dump it onto the spirit figure. That is pretty much it. Sometimes you will hear a vacuum type sound when that happens as it gets ripped out of this level of existence into the Akashic one.

Long forms are very useful for practicing the various yogic phenomena/energies for longer periods of time. It works pretty well with everything except earth energy or mental energy.

The swimming form usually uses astral energy in my experience. It is fairly slow and results in the suspension of the sensation of time passing, which is why it is referred to as "timeless" in terms of its primary characteristic.

Astral energy appears when conducting vital energy breathing at the end of the breath. Hold your breath here and a light flutter sensation will generate. Then begin breathing this into and out of the solar plexus. With me it feels like a light fluttering and an almost wind chime sound. The color is white. Rate of respiration slows significantly. When you see a monk walking very slowly along a path this is what they are working with.

[edededed]

Interesting stuff - your elements practice is quite different from anything I have learned thus far.

Regarding the astral breathing - are you speaking of holding the breath after exhale, or after inhale? Thanks a lot

[Peacedog]

edededed,

Sorry I did not make it clearer.

First you start with vital breathing, which is the same as bone breathing used in many systems. This is where you imagine light coming in through the pores of the skin on the inhale from around you into the lower dan tien. On the exhale, the energy goes back out again.

You do this for awhile and then at the end of either the inhale or exhale hold your breath for a few seconds. At this point you will feel the astral energy manifest as I described above.

Now you breath this different energy in via the pores in your skin into and out of the solar plexus area.

I originally learned the 5 element meditations from a Taoist system, but my teacher never taught me how to band the energy or utilize it with movement. The end stage meditations were very similar to those in the 4 element system I use now however.

If someone wants to use the five element form they would need to research where the energies band within the body. Additionally they would need to figure out the sounds and other characteristics to the system. I imagine the matching three energies between the system would be the same, but I have no idea how it will work with wood and metal. I do think metal would have a light/floating sensation like air however.

The elemental energies can be used for a variety of purposes. I've personally been on the receiving end from three different teachers who could use the elements to flavor fah jing and they had no relationship with each other. Two used the five element system and one used the four element system.

Some sources indicate that if you generate the elemental energies from the internal organs and use this for fah jing that you need to do this selectively as over use is bad for your health.

With my current system I do not think we have this limitation, but then again my empty hand skills are pretty basic. I largely use it as a demo for prospective students and with another student who can issue fah jing it can be used to reinforce the health of both practitioners. Although in this case the energy is used in a very soft manner for obvious reasons. And no, testicle jing is not what I most often use. I largely work with kidney and liver jing in those cases.

Cheers,

Peacedog

[Simon]

Peacedog

Really nicely put your approach to Akasha.

Not sure whether you agree but I would say the ability to cease all thoughts for 30 mins or more will make the potency of the elements go from vague to something very powerful quite quickly. I see this as a big prerequisite as if not present the later element work can take much longer.

Looking forward to reading your book.....please let us all know when it is out.