The dark side of meditation and mindfulness

[Strange]

"From correct practice of Pranayama, all illnesses can be cured. From incorrect practice of Pranayama, all illnesses can occur."

[Spncr]

...I don`t think , that we have western MD`s experienced in eastern esoteric staff,
or even interested in seriously doing it, for that matter....

This fellow comes to mind, and I'm sure he's not the only one by far


http://www.biharyoga.net/yoga-publicati ... sychology/

[yeniseri]

Yeniseri,

Regarding undiagnosed schizophrenia and the like, on a basic level any meditative/yogic work modulates the sense gates in the body (sight, sound, taste, touch and smell). Malfunctions of the sight gate result in hallucinations/clairvoyance, the sound gate results in hearing voices/clairaudience, the touch gate results in weird sensations in the body/clairsentience and the taste/smell gates in odd flavors and smells that transmit information about the local environment. This is a major topic of my book on meditation that should be out in June sometime on Kindle.

I have frequently seen this cause some interesting sensory phenomena to occur in people with no history of any psychiatric conditions. Generally speaking these are temporary in nature, on rare occasions they can be more lasting.

In most systems the advice when these things get out of hand is to simply stop practicing the techniques linked to the problem. My issue with this is that once these things start happening they seem to never really go away completely and at a minimum the practitioner with the problem is prone to having it happen again. This is why I refer to meditative/yogic work as more about opening and walking through doorways that cannot be shut that something you can just start and stop.

The techniques to repair this kind of thing are not particularly well known, but are rather simple in nature. I've long wanted to work with a group of early onset schizophrenics to see if this would help in their case (i.e. people who have not been on drugs for any significant length of time). Anecdotal evidence indicates this can be helpful, but longer term medical studies on the role of meditation and the mentally ill generally report mixed results.

I have written periodically about this but it tends to be treated as a minor issue!

Most of results are per clinical research methodology within qigong/yangshengong circles and the appearance of these adverse events, which are not recognized within the greater qigong community at large! What triggered my initial work was what I recognized as 'devil running fire' appearing frequently in qigong style (New Qigong!) which people learned by themselves (without teacher input/instruction) and one specific system called Hexiangzhuang (Soaring Crane) where participants had a high incidence of voices, demons in the dantian/qihai, era, who had no family diagnosis of mental health problems and ended up self mutilating, with other problems. I have been trying to find the EJCM (I think) where they described one level of antidote for adverse events amelioration but I have been unsuccessful in finding that link. I will again try just to have a documented profile of steps in one process (N=1)

[yeniseri]

Here is a case report from the Journal of Chinese Medicine

https://www.jcm.co.uk/news/qigong-devia ... e-history/

[Peacedog]

I'm fairly familiar with cases like hers. In those cases acupuncture typically provides a palliative effect without being able to solve the problem. If she goes back every week or so things are fine, but if she misses too many sessions it comes back.

In cases like this learning to run the orbits and doing so consistently takes care of the problem long term.

[amor]

I'm fairly familiar with cases like hers. In those cases acupuncture typically provides a palliative effect without being able to solve the problem. If she goes back every week or so things are fine, but if she misses too many sessions it comes back.

In cases like this learning to run the orbits and doing so consistently takes care of the problem long term.

Peacedog have you ever known anyone either in your clinic or outside to fall under so called possessions inadvertently without pursuing the conventional routes, such as Dark Magic or occult practices etc., but simply by doing yogic or Taoist practices, is this even possible in your professional opinion to 'link-up' with the 'spiritual' world even when your not trying to?

[Peacedog]

Full on possession, no. I've, thankfully, only seen about 3 cases of that over 30 years or so, but keep in mind I don't go looking for it and I am also not a psychiatrist.

Sense gate malfunctions tend to be more genetic in nature and amplify with energetic/esoteric practice. As a result, demonic obsession where someone is being continually harassed usually from a sight or hearing gate problem, is much more common with drug use being the most common trigger initially.

Energetic malfunctions involving the meridians, like the lady in the case study listed, are the most common. They usually involve some kind of qi gong, or meditation, but they can happen spontaneously. Again I suspect a genetic predilection and people who get into the esoteric from this standpoint tend to be the strongest in terms of overall potential.

My personal case is telling in that I spontaneously went through the kundalini in my early teens. Being an agnostic kid from south Texas, I had no clue what the hell was going on. Massive movements of what can best be described as energy and heat within my body, precognitive moments, but thankfully relatively few visual hallucinations and no auditory ones. I'd seen crazy and knew that was not me. The hyper sexuality moments in Panama were fun at times but generally a waste of effort. The last of which occurred in a Trader Joes in Tucson where a yogini became sexually stoned off of the vibe I was emitting at the time, I was pretty charged up that day, and tried to have sex with me in public. I basically ran away.

And then there was a time in a club in Jerusalem when I had been practicing several hours a day and inadvertently charged up an entire club. People were dancing on tables and it kind of devolved from there. The effect on the fashion models was...interesting. Good times...

It took about 10 years to begin to figure it out. It got to the point that I spent two winters barefoot on the ice in the mountains at the service academy I attended from the second duty in the evening ended.

I finally met my Taoist teacher in Arizona and everything worked itself out care of some solid qi gong and running the orbits over a period of about a year.

Truly spontaneous encounters with the divine seem to be fairly rare, probably on the order 1 in 100000 or less, but I have met at least one gentleman who went through the kundalini with no training at all. In cases like this most people who survive the process generally keep it to themselves. Glenn Morris wrote about this in one of his books.

Kundalini awakening seems the most common example of this. I did however meet one young man who went through a kind of reverse kundalini that resulted in some kind of energy entering through the top of his head. A nearby witness described it as a kind of lightning strike coming out of a clear blue sky that threw the young man about 10 feet when it happened. He ended up practicing Gary Clyman's nei gung system and was doing just fine the last time I saw him about 10 years ago.

[jimmy]

[amor]

It took about 10 years to begin to figure it out. It got to the point that I spent two winters barefoot on the ice in the mountains at the service academy I attended from the second duty in the evening ended.

I finally met my Taoist teacher in Arizona and everything worked itself out care of some solid qi gong and running the orbits over a period of about a year.

Truly spontaneous encounters with the divine seem to be fairly rare, probably on the order 1 in 100000 or less, but I have met at least one gentleman who went through the kundalini with no training at all. In cases like this most people who survive the process generally keep it to themselves. Glenn Morris wrote about this in one of his books.

Kundalini awakening seems the most common example of this. I did however meet one young man who went through a kind of reverse kundalini that resulted in some kind of energy entering through the top of his head. A nearby witness described it as a kind of lightning strike coming out of a clear blue sky that threw the young man about 10 feet when it happened. He ended up practicing Gary Clyman's nei gung system and was doing just fine the last time I saw him about 10 years ago.

Interesting cases there, I think the kundalini thing is probably blown out of proportion to be honest but I do not disagree on the ensuing problems encountered by those who get into it but I believe they are most likely due to latent issues. If people are already in their head then problems just get exacerbated by these yoga kundalini activities. I suppose the IMA's are the ways to get introduced to this stuff and atleast provide some 'transferable skills' for more uplifting activities of this type.
But sounds like you been through the lot, did it drain you financially as well during both the good and bad times ?

[Peacedog]

The primary point of focus (abdomen, solar plexus or head) during kundalni awakening has ALOT to do with what happens in terms of the experience. Without substantial, and experienced, instruction the abdomen is the only of the three I recommend tackling on your own. I gave myself a seizure trying to use the solar plexus incorrectly and almost died after trying to use the head.

As for the IMAs, Wan Lai Sheng said it best, "Ziranmen (an IMA) is not a spiritual practice, but provides an excellent foundation for spiritual development."

When I was younger and things were out there, it made me insufferable to be around. Imagine a bunch of analyst types locked in a room 8-10 hours a day with someone laying down a rockstar vibe. Those things don't happen today both because I have a better idea of what I am doing but also due to my age. A lot of societies won't teach you this stuff until you are safely into your 40's and I can see why.

The hardest part for most people to come to terms with is the fact that once your yogic practice reaches a certain point, yogic development along the line of the kundalini will happen. So at that point merely stopping an active practice does not make the problem go away. You can stand in the doorway as long as you want, and suffer because of it, but sooner or later you must walk through to the other side.

Fortunately, I've been told I have a generally benevolent nature. Back then I was both benevolent and clueless. I'm working on the clueless part.

[D_Glenn]

And then there was a time in a club in Jerusalem when I had been practicing several hours a day and inadvertently charged up an entire club. People were dancing on tables and it kind of devolved from there. The effect on the fashion models was...interesting. Good times...

I wonder if a more plausible explanation might be that you just coincidentally arrived right when everyone's MDMA/ Ecstasy was starting to kick in.



.

[Ron Panunto]

The last of which occurred in a Trader Joes in Tucson where a yogini became sexually stoned off of the vibe I was emitting at the time, I was pretty charged up that day, and tried to have sex with me in public. I basically ran .

Clyman tells this same bullshit story.

[Peacedog]

Both Gary and I used similar methodologies at early ages. Hence the commonality of experiences. Tim Ferris even described something very similar in one of his books using more conventional methods.

I suspect a lot of the older bacchanalian stories from the Grecco-Roman cannon, as well as others, have their roots in this kind of phenomena.

Functionally, you need to be young, have a cracking endocrine system, run the orbits centering on the guts, use the looping technique and practice a lot.

This only happened to me when I would practice at least 90 minutes, and more often 2 hours, per day while not ejaculating for extended periods of time.

[edededed]

Interesting stuff, Peacedog - I always enjoy your posts.

Do you think this will work with uninterested wives? Or is a predilection for sex a necessary ingredient?

(As for me, I certainly did not practice for 2 hour periods before, but the best I could do was just to get horny myself...)

[Peacedog]

Generally speaking no one is going to do anything that they are not interested in doing in the first place.

Between me, students and friends who have experienced similar phenomena it seems to affect women between their late teens and late 20s the strongest. The women in this state start off becoming very sexually aroused and at some point become what can only be described as "sex drunk." Speech slurs, their bodies become very warm to the touch, cognitive function appears supressed, orally fixated, tactile sensation is greatly enhanced, etc. After that age group the effect turns into a kind of general arousal that is not directed at you.

The men generating the effect were not over their early 30s in age.