Time For Bonnie Scotland to Fuck Off?

[Mr_Wood]

Besides membership in NATO, what economic changes will occur if Scotland is "independent" as opposed to being part of the UK.

The currency for one. As of now the markets are selling anything remotely affiliated with Scottish owned business.

[Mr_Wood]

I am told the Scottish path finders will be the greatest loss to the British military.

[Mr_Wood]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W6vDzf-wSbk

[Interloper]

Very well and graciously said, Andy. A real challenge lies ahead, should the Scots majority vote "aye." The queen of England is a wise and gracious woman, and I believe that she will take it into stride in the event that the split becomes reality.

But, Andy, does this also mean you'll buy tartan to go with the claymore and dirk, and, more important, will ye be wearin' anything under yer kilt?

My sense is that the "Ayes" will take it at the last minute in a tight, tight vote.

As an Englishman, I have been dismayed by the "No" camp's arguments: Their whole angle is fear-based, rather than being based on the positives of what is, by the standards of global history and governance, a pretty successful 300-year union. In short, I can't blame yes-voting Jocks for being anti-Westminster if this is the best our brightest political minds can come up with.

OTOH....I have been even less impressed by the "Yes" camp's arguments, which are evasive, emotive and downright Utopian rather than inclusive, rational or plain realistic.

But given that we humans - yes, even the famously "dour Scots" - are emotional rather than rational creatures, I suspect that this is why "Yes" will emerge (narrowly) victorious.

Personally, I don't want to see a breakup of the Union: after all, if two parties want a divorce, all is good, but if just one party wants it, it can be very bitter.

Even so, if that is what the Scots want...they have been given the opportunity, so good luck and God speed to them all. They may - just may - show a bright shining light for the powers of a smaller, devolved state that will set an important precedent in the years and decades to come.

And if "rump UK" accepts Scottish independence without an uproar, then that is the sign of a very, very enlightened polity indeed: How many other nations would let 10 percent of their land and population simply go their own way after a (close) referendum? This would be democracy to the max.

Above all, I would hope good cross-border relations endure. But they may not.

If it is "yes," the best possible outcome would then be for a sensible, just and moderate disentanglement process, equably negotiated between Westminster and Holyrood in a grown-up manner with an eye toward future friendly relations. This would be the common-sensical approach.

The worst possible outcome would be for a bad-tempered, vindictive or high-handed disengagement that would create immediate resentment and instability, and sew the sees for decades of bitterness and ill-feeling on both sides.

Interesting days ahead; I may just have to invest in a claymore, dirk and pistol.

[Steve James]

The currency for one. As of now the markets are selling anything remotely affiliated with Scottish owned business.

Ya mean that they might adopt the EURO instead of the pound? Afa the market, low prices often indicate buying opportunities. It all depends --and that is the key word-- on exactly what Scotland produces economically in terms of exports and what how much it depends on England. High tariffs on unnecessary items are irrelevant. Besides, is that what the Scots are demanding? And couldn't the Scots also ask for economic participation in the UK afterward?

[Mr_Wood]

Im not economically educated enough to follow this though unfortunately but i will try my best. buying opportunities doesn't necessarily mean economic growth, its more about the confidence in the market, commodities and with media scare mongering would have us believe scottish owned business is not a safe commodity right now, this may well change. Their currency has yet to be decided but you would imagine they would adopt the euro if they become independent and hasn't really worked out well for some. A deep fried pound coin might be the way forward. They have the (oil) potential to be a very wealthy nation, it all depends on who's holding the purse strings.

[Dajenarit]

Well according to the Daily News, The U.K. says the pound is off the table as a currency option for an independent Scotland.

All this stuff should of been sorted long before the referendum came up imo. I guess there's a place for figuring out as you go along but maybe not with an entire country.

[Dajenarit]

Hopefully people aren't being suckered into voting one way or the other. They'll find out after the fact of course.

[emptycloud]

What we are witnessing is classic divide and rule tactics. The British establishment is squirming as allegation after allegation comes to light about their elite culture of degradation. It is imperative that the parasite class divide the nation so as to collapse the rising unified anger against them. England will be next.

Nationalism, the poor mans's religion, is again being evoked so as to divert the attention of the masses away from the "vampire sucking squid upon the face of humanity". Regionalism will be the next card to be played.

The bloodsuckers do not give up easily. They will do everything possible to avoid the light of truth/day. A cornered vampire is a dangerous thing. Its time for them to burn the castle and flee.

It may well be a solid " No vote " as the elite have unleashed "the Beckham", that power house of political thought. Oh no it gets worse "the Geldof" has awoken from its slumber.....ye gads ...

if its a no vote, devo-max will be forced upon Scotland, the parasite class will get their division one way or another.

watch Europe, and then the US begin this pattern of disintegration... then China..

power to the people...

into the dark night (of NWO) we go -

fair thee well

Rich

[AllanF]

I wasn't going to make any posts on this thread after its resurrection but as i took issue with daft pro Yes comments i feel i must do the same for daft pro No comments

most yes voters seem to be voting from their hearts, the no's are thinking about it all a bit more and are seem to be slightly more open minded.

Sorry but this is startlingly patronizing and shows a complete lack of understanding of what is happening. Do you seriously think that the thousands of people who have moved from a No to a Yes have not tried to research the issues?

I think you'd be hard pressed to find any Yes person who didn't think that the economics of it all are worrying. Not least because there is a risk of economic pressure being applied to an iScotland by rUK as was one of the reason for the joining of the union in the first place. [The strategic and financial disaster of the Dorrian project was intentionally scuppered by the East India Company (as it became known) putting pressure on the king to order that no trade would be done with the colony. Of course it wouldn't have succeeded any way but its demise was accelerated as a direct result of trade embargoes.]

The economics in the short term are worrying, and i personal foresee the markets taking a kicking on a Yes vote but as is illustrated by the GFC markets do recover. So the real question is not will it drop, but rather how far and for how long?

As for the BBC...i think you'd be hard pressed to find any No voter who could say in all honesty that the BBC has been impartial! they have been at pains to paint this vote as SNP V the rest of the UK parties, which is a nonsense. It is convenient to ignore the Green party, Labour for independence, the Common Weal, the National Collective, the Scottish Socialist Party and the Radical Independence Campaign. A great deal of people that are Yes have never voted SNP in their lives not only that but a large number were life time labour voters. One telling bumper sticker i saw read, "independence 2014, Labour 2016!"

One of the driving factors for a great many people is political evolution. As one No activist, friend of mine and a true blue Tory since his primary school days said a Yes vote would force the politics in all parts of the UK to change. In Scotland the SNP would probably split into the left and right factions since the only thing that holds them together is independence, the Conservative would have to distance themselves from London Tories and become Conservative with a small 'c' or face extinction. Labour would have to return to it's founding values and the Greens (who as a UK party are unanimous in their support for Yes) would in all probability gain a stronger voice in government (i have notice a great deal of people joining the Green party of late, particularly amounts my labour voting friends.

It has also raise questions again about the ethics of government, in the less than subtle way Cameron has been talking to banks and supermarkets about what they will do post Yes.

The No campaign have been inept, they seem to have lost touch with the common folk (Jim Murphy excepted) examples of this are in their "Patronizing Lady" video, Jim Reid telling people not to vote if they are undecided and this clip which just serve as fuel for the class divide (honestly the 2nd guy in the clip could be David Cameron's brother in a kilt). For those that don't know Scotland and Edinburgh, this was a 5,000 strong turn out in the Grange of Edinburgh, an area where the average house price will be in the region of £700,000...hardly representative of the ordinary people!



Now bearing mind the above clip then listen to this chap talking about delivering food parcels and the social welfare minefield and you can see why this is a lot closer than it was 12 months ago.

https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=10 ... =2&theater

There are some very good reasons for vote for Yes and No (economics being the big draw card), but to say that either side hasn't thought about it or isn't open minded only serves to expose a lack of understanding.

[AllanF]

Just to point out also that, for every argument either for or against independence there is an equally valid counter.

In truth i am going with a leading London economist who was featured on a BBC show about 3/4 months ago, who basically said, neither side is right on the economics. No one will be better off or worst off, in truth people will be pretty much the way they are now. Sounds almost common sense!

Both sides have also been caught red handed lying about the NHS, Darling stating in the televised debate that NHS spending has increased every year, when one of his labour colleagues complained to the ombudsman about Cameron stating the same, a complaint that was upheld and Cameron told he could not say that again.

Salmond saying the NHS is safe in an iScotland, when in fact it faces £450million in spending cuts!

So bearing that in mind there must be other reasons for a vote, as one friend of mine who will be voting No due to "caution" said it is very hard to tell fact from bluster...

[Mr_Wood]

Sorry but this is startlingly patronizing and shows a complete lack of understanding of what is happening. Do you seriously think that the thousands of people who have moved from a No to a Yes have not tried to research the issues?

Your 100% correct. My thoughts are based only on the views of the few Scots I know and a small amount of media coverage, I have not researched the matter. No offence intended.

[chud]

Oh crap, he couldn't keep quiet:

Obama urges Scotland not to ruin America's 'special relationship' by voting for independence (click )

Way to encourage more Scots to vote “Yes" Mr President.

This is a purely internal issue for the United Kingdom.

[AllanF]

[To Mr Wood]

None taken, an i apologize if my tone seemed a bit harsh.

It has been a long debate up here, but no excuses on my side, as i said in a facebook post, at the end of the day politics just isn't that important in comparison to friendship and family. Unless crimes against humanity are committed that is...but either Yes or No i can't see that being an issue in the UK/Scotland.

[AllanF]

Love John Oliver (it is alleged that this clip isn't on UK YouTube).

https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=10 ... =2&theater

And Mr Darling on independence, the economy and defence