The dark side of meditation and mindfulness

Rum, beer, movies, nice websites, gaming, etc., without interrupting the flow of martial threads.

The dark side of meditation and mindfulness

Postby klonk on Fri May 22, 2015 7:23 pm

Of course it might just be that people who go in for this stuff are incipient nutters anyway... ;)

The dark side of meditation and mindfulness: Treatment can trigger mania, depression and psychosis, new book claims
Theory is that techniques help relieve stress and live for the moment

But 60% of us have apparently suffered at least one negative side effect
Experts: Shortage of rigorous statistical studies into the negative effects of meditation is a 'scandal'

By HARRIET CRAWFORD FOR THE DAILY MAIL
PUBLISHED: 05:56 EST, 22 May 2015 | UPDATED: 11:20 EST, 22 May 2015

Meditation and mindfulness is promoted by celebrities including Gwyneth Paltrow and Russell Brand, who boast of its power to help people put stress out of their minds and live for the moment.
But the treatment can itself trigger mania, depression, hallucinations and psychosis, psychological studies in the UK and US have found.
The practice is part of a growing movement based on ancient Eastern traditions of meditation.


[...]


Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/artic ... z3avMeq1Dh
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook
I define internal martial art as unusual muscle recruitment and leave it at that. If my definition is incomplete, at least it is correct so far as it goes.
User avatar
klonk
Great Old One
 
Posts: 6776
Joined: Tue May 13, 2008 11:46 am

Re: The dark side of meditation and mindfulness

Postby Spncr on Fri May 22, 2015 8:22 pm

A friend of mine brought me a manual on Pranayama (yogic breathing) back from India once, the name of the author escapes my mind at the moment. Anyways, one quote from the beginning of that text comes to mind, "From correct practice of Pranayama, all illnesses can be cured. From incorrect practice of Pranayama, all illnesses can occur." Take from that what you will, and its seems admittedly extreme as far as warnings go, but I have also come across similar precautions from many other sources. There are many classic yoga texts that contain warnings about the possibility of negative effects due to incorrect training and or and unprepared mind/body/etc.
User avatar
Spncr
Huajing
 
Posts: 257
Joined: Thu Jul 03, 2014 1:58 pm

Re: The dark side of meditation and mindfulness

Postby jimmy on Fri May 22, 2015 10:26 pm

Them ignrnt mutha f***z miss one (w(hole)) 1/3 of the pie... hence, the descent into negative causal results.
User avatar
jimmy
Wuji
 
Posts: 1338
Joined: Fri Dec 12, 2014 9:24 pm

Re: The dark side of meditation and mindfulness

Postby Peacedog on Sat May 23, 2015 12:42 pm

And this is the reason why I hate new agers and monks alike.

Meditation induced illness, i.e. kundalini sickness, is a very common occurrence. It happens even more often if you use illegal drugs of any kind, especially marijuana/THC based products.

If you want to see what this looks like when it really goes off the rails check out Lee Sannella's book The Kundalini Experience. It can be found here: http://www.amazon.com/Kundalini-Experie ... experience

I've met far too many teachers over the years who were more than willing to turn students lose with techniques that stood a good chance of breaking them even though the teacher had no idea of how to fix people afterwards. Their response when confronted on this is usually, "its fate/karma/etc." Which is why they are shitheads and why I have a reputation for beating the crap out people like that. Usually me, or one of the four other people I mention below, get stuck with fixing the broken person, to the degree it is possible, if it happens in North America.

For the record, I know of only five people who can repair people who get into trouble with this stuff. Those five people are: me, Mark Rasmus, Gary Clyman, Tao Semko and Santiago Dobles.

If it sounds like I have a bad attitude regarding this issue, it is because I do.
Peacedog
Great Old One
 
Posts: 2194
Joined: Fri May 23, 2008 5:22 am
Location: Standing right next to your girl....

Re: The dark side of meditation and mindfulness

Postby klonk on Sat May 23, 2015 3:49 pm

It may be well if we return to discussing zou huo ru mo (qigong disorder in a Westernized euphemism but the old name may be more descriptive).

Jimmy, salvation is for all who want it. It is life and breath to me, but a poisonous stench to some. (2 Corinthians 2:16)
Last edited by klonk on Sat May 23, 2015 3:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.
I define internal martial art as unusual muscle recruitment and leave it at that. If my definition is incomplete, at least it is correct so far as it goes.
User avatar
klonk
Great Old One
 
Posts: 6776
Joined: Tue May 13, 2008 11:46 am

Re: The dark side of meditation and mindfulness

Postby wiesiek on Sun May 24, 2015 5:48 am

Pacedog - it is how THC is workin` - shit undercover in the mind became visible,
if you are unable to working out the emotional state of the mind - meditation and THC - no, no, NO!,
only prozac can save the day :)
Meditation may works similar to THC, for that matter -ie. psychosis may find the way to express itself,
so
takin` both when you`re unprepared , I mean -don`t know yourself, or without experienced >guru< is raid on the razor,
zou huo ru mo is mind inducted, then,
`cause mind is everything
I may smoke in the peace -joint-
Joyful Fruits of the Live
wiesiek
Wuji
 
Posts: 4480
Joined: Thu May 15, 2008 12:38 am
Location: krakow

Re: The dark side of meditation and mindfulness

Postby wiesiek on Sun May 24, 2015 6:00 am

re@ breathing
since it means literally LIVE /you don`t breath- you`re dead/
paying attention here is very important

>be natural<

we all are aware about it, just if your synapses doesn`t work as it should be, natural has the completely different meanings...
Joyful Fruits of the Live
wiesiek
Wuji
 
Posts: 4480
Joined: Thu May 15, 2008 12:38 am
Location: krakow

Re: The dark side of meditation and mindfulness

Postby yeniseri on Sun May 24, 2015 4:04 pm

klonk wrote:It may be well if we return to discussing zou huo ru mo (qigong disorder in a Westernized euphemism but the old name may be more descriptive).


Actually the descriptive "zou huo ru mo " is far more serious whereas the present term of adverse event can be considered mild, moderate or severe.

The descriptive of 'devil running fire' tends to overstate the folk affiliation noting that many adverse events attributed to its old definition tends to be outward and physical damage to person and surrounding environment. There are quite a few stories of people participating in qigong and ended up seeing images of abcd then taking knives and garden tools to excise said evil spirits, ghosts, etc that was part of their qigong induces mania /psychoses, which bordered on untreated and undiagnosed mental disorders manifested as schizophrenia or some bipolar affiliated mechanism.
When fascism comes to US America, It will be wrapped in the US flag and waving a cross. An astute patriot
yeniseri
Wuji
 
Posts: 3797
Joined: Sat Dec 12, 2009 1:49 pm
Location: USA

Re: The dark side of meditation and mindfulness

Postby Steve James on Sun May 24, 2015 4:29 pm

Well, those people who don't have any devil in them don't have anything to worry about. It'll manifest without meditation.
"A man is rich when he has time and freewill. How he chooses to invest both will determine the return on his investment."
User avatar
Steve James
Great Old One
 
Posts: 21137
Joined: Tue May 13, 2008 8:20 am

Re: The dark side of meditation and mindfulness

Postby jimmy on Sun May 24, 2015 5:15 pm

ImageImageImageImageImage
User avatar
jimmy
Wuji
 
Posts: 1338
Joined: Fri Dec 12, 2014 9:24 pm

Re: The dark side of meditation and mindfulness

Postby klonk on Sun May 24, 2015 6:08 pm

Steve James wrote:Well, those people who don't have any devil in them don't have anything to worry about. It'll manifest without meditation.


It is tempting to make light of this problem, but I refrain. Have you ever known anyone who was worth spit who didn't have a bit of the devil? (Saving your grace, naming no names, and etcetera...) :D
I define internal martial art as unusual muscle recruitment and leave it at that. If my definition is incomplete, at least it is correct so far as it goes.
User avatar
klonk
Great Old One
 
Posts: 6776
Joined: Tue May 13, 2008 11:46 am

Re: The dark side of meditation and mindfulness

Postby Steve James on Sun May 24, 2015 6:17 pm

Have you ever known anyone who was worth spit who didn't have a bit of the devil?


I've never known anyone without a bit. That's why I think it comes out.
"A man is rich when he has time and freewill. How he chooses to invest both will determine the return on his investment."
User avatar
Steve James
Great Old One
 
Posts: 21137
Joined: Tue May 13, 2008 8:20 am

Re: The dark side of meditation and mindfulness

Postby klonk on Sun May 24, 2015 7:22 pm

Steve James wrote:
Have you ever known anyone who was worth spit who didn't have a bit of the devil?


I've never known anyone without a bit. That's why I think it comes out.


Take you heart medication, Steve. Why? I agree with you.
I define internal martial art as unusual muscle recruitment and leave it at that. If my definition is incomplete, at least it is correct so far as it goes.
User avatar
klonk
Great Old One
 
Posts: 6776
Joined: Tue May 13, 2008 11:46 am

Re: The dark side of meditation and mindfulness

Postby Peacedog on Mon May 25, 2015 2:10 am

Yeniseri,

Regarding undiagnosed schizophrenia and the like, on a basic level any meditative/yogic work modulates the sense gates in the body (sight, sound, taste, touch and smell). Malfunctions of the sight gate result in hallucinations/clairvoyance, the sound gate results in hearing voices/clairaudience, the touch gate results in weird sensations in the body/clairsentience and the taste/smell gates in odd flavors and smells that transmit information about the local environment. This is a major topic of my book on meditation that should be out in June sometime on Kindle.

I have frequently seen this cause some interesting sensory phenomena to occur in people with no history of any psychiatric conditions. Generally speaking these are temporary in nature, on rare occasions they can be more lasting.

In most systems the advice when these things get out of hand is to simply stop practicing the techniques linked to the problem. My issue with this is that once these things start happening they seem to never really go away completely and at a minimum the practitioner with the problem is prone to having it happen again. This is why I refer to meditative/yogic work as more about opening and walking through doorways that cannot be shut that something you can just start and stop.

The techniques to repair this kind of thing are not particularly well known, but are rather simple in nature. I've long wanted to work with a group of early onset schizophrenics to see if this would help in their case (i.e. people who have not been on drugs for any significant length of time). Anecdotal evidence indicates this can be helpful, but longer term medical studies on the role of meditation and the mentally ill generally report mixed results.
Last edited by Peacedog on Mon May 25, 2015 2:31 am, edited 1 time in total.
Peacedog
Great Old One
 
Posts: 2194
Joined: Fri May 23, 2008 5:22 am
Location: Standing right next to your girl....

Re: The dark side of meditation and mindfulness

Postby wiesiek on Mon May 25, 2015 4:10 am

Like it or not - internal "wonder drug" is only for the small / very/, part of the population,
even all time taoworker has to take herbal support :)
..." medical studies on the role of meditation and the mentally ill generally report mixed results..."
yup,
we just started to study this topic, so we don`t have nuf evidence, good methodology for it, or really engaged in the such study doctors of western medicine .
In addition our doctors are fruits of our "chemical brothers" culture, so go figure...

Good and bad :
Evil is yang , God is yin
or in reverse, doesn`t matter , real Tao is >in between <
all this is in our minds, so choice is ours.
Problem is - how to achieve and forge independent mind, and what it is - this- "independent mind", maybe doesn`t exists at all, :)
During meditation "makyo" /demons of the visible word/ can be taken for real and may direct weak mentally peps,
then only very experienced "guru" is able to direct them. He is also needed for serious study of the topic.
I don`t think , that we have western MD`s experienced in eastern esoteric staff,
or even interested in seriously doing it, for that matter.
Our forum is rare beast ! / we have couple of MD, suppose - all on the word interested :-* /
Joyful Fruits of the Live
wiesiek
Wuji
 
Posts: 4480
Joined: Thu May 15, 2008 12:38 am
Location: krakow

Next

Return to Off the Topic

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 28 guests