San shou

[taiwandeutscher]

Xiong system, Taiwan:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q4aaT6jtICY

[windwalker]

Xiong system, Taiwan:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q4aaT6jtICY

a few observations...not judgements

The range of the practice quite interesting....

although it does not address a couple of key points..

getting within range, ability to remain in range

presumably, what the practice is designed to train..

Nice clip...good practice

[wayne hansen]

I like that guy and follow his stuff
One short coming I see is when he does hit tiger he lets it land before moving
U should adjust position as he corners and pull his non striking hand as in Ta Lu
Pushing/walking 4 hands/ta Lu/San shou it is a progression
Most people do san shou forgetting the lessons of the previous 3
Listening is essential
I know many CMC schools where it is paramount
I don’t know how it got there but that matters little
CMC was a minimalist in what he taught and how he taught
He didn’t cut things out to make it easier but to concentrate the mind
Zen like
When I talk about CMC I divide it into 3 schools
Taiwan /USA /Malaysia
Taiwan had a lot of those who were already martial artists
NY was the 70’s counter culture
Malaysia was going thru an uprising with Chinese a target who needed self protection
This is just my theory but to me it explains the differences

[Trick]

To my mind san shou always equaled free-fighting/sparring and nothing else.
In Japanese karate they divide it more clear with properly naming different ways of prearranged kumite and then free kumite/sparring, in Japanese koryu(traditional) martial arts they call the prearranged two person sets “kata” which I think is quite properly

[Steve James]

Yeah, ime, san shou wasn't the form. The form is a dance, and some schools treat it that way. Others do it with more 'oomph,' but it's still a dance -like a kata or pre-arranged demo.

It's a trade off, though. It's a good way to practice applying the movements in the form. It's not really san shou, but neither is push hands. Translating the skills to random application is still the problem.

Here's Yang Jwing Ming's version

[wayne hansen]

Sha,s son doing his version on the San Shou
I always thought it was interesting he added a Sun style opening to a Yang form
I guess it just fitted in with the feel of the form
Also interesting is how he says Yearning K Chen invented the form dismissing t!he story of Chen and the Yang family manuals
https://youtu.be/-tirEI3Jt4o?si=PWQppjO7mQkINSoV

I should add I don't like how he does it compared to his father
Not enough listening energy and his distancing is not good

[ParadoxTeapot]

From my perspective, Tuishou implies physical contact whereas Sanshou implies broken contact.

So most of that in the original video wasn't Sanshou.

Maybe that video derived it from Da Lu tuishou (which Chen has as well): https://youtu.be/rXUqzQTILFE?si=PBs-s-d1DZzmapB9

But to me, that was largely not sanshou.

If we wanted to compare striking between Chen and Yang, then Chen has an entire form called Pao Chui (Cannon Fist) that's all about smashing and bashing which Yang does not have. But that being said, there's like a culture where most of them do not practice striking. Tuishou has become way more dominant. So while tuishou shouldn't be the sum total of Taijiquan, most seem to be stuck in just tuishou.

[wayne hansen]

Apart from the initial punch contact should not be broken
If it is broken the other person should try to take advantage
Also if one person fails to reach the right target the other should take advantage

[wayne hansen]

The San Shou solo forms are like cannon fist in the fact they work on the second four energies and can be done with great vigor
I had a well known teacher come for a private lesson in San Shou
I told him my theory about it being the Yang equivalent of the Cannon fist
The next thing I knew he was teaching it as the Cannon fist

[Trick]

. smashing and bashing

one could argue if this is taiji ?

[ParadoxTeapot]

. smashing and bashing

one could argue if this is taiji ?

I would be confused as to why one would argue it can't be Taiji other than stereotypes of rehab Yang style being about slow, soft, and gentle.

Given that Chinese martial arts have a saying "Ti, Da, Shuai, Na", why wouldn't it have Da (Hitting)?

Maybe one would argue: "B-But... that's... hard! Tai Chi is supposed to be soft!"

But I would argue that's only 1 side of the coin. If you want something to be called Taiji, should it not have both Yin and Yang - therefore Soft and Hard? Use softness to produce a hard power.

It's also... useful. Hitting people works very well. Taiji talks about soft overcoming hard, but the flip side of that is using hard to make someone soft. Hitting is a good way to soften someone up.

[Trick]

Don’t confuse meekness with weakness

Smashing and bashing is good, it gives the skillful an opportunity to clearly show and teach the way of the Taijitu

[Trick]

Don’t confuse meekness with weakness

Smashing and bashing is good, it gives the skillful an opportunity to clearly show and teach the way of the Taijitu

[wayne hansen]

Hard soft fast slow I can no longer tell the difference
Boxing no boxing
Mind no mind
Just because you train soft doesn't mean you don't hit hard
Meek Week that's for me

[Steve James]

Tcc theory doesn't say that tcc is soft. It says things like "when I am soft and the opponent is hard, it's called yielding." But, that's a description of not depending on force to oppose force. Or, there's the concept of 'the needle wrapped in cotton."

Softness can't mean that the punches hit softly. Ok, there'll be those who say that the power for the punch is generated differently, but that's a different subject. There are also those who'll say that a tcc is like the five fingers of death touch, and that the effect of the 'punch' doesn't come from it's power. But, that's too dangerous to discuss here . So, I'm talking about the ordinary 'hard' force that will knock someone out.

Anyway, my coach said that you're supposed to hit hard and the other guy has to figure it out. You don't even need to worry if it's tcc. OTOH, if the other guy is stronger and faster, then you need to use tcc.