the rum soaked fist: internal martial arts forum

wayne hansen wrote:I only point that out to show tai chi was not lacking

wayne hansen wrote:I was answering a question someone else asked me not replying to you

origami_itto wrote:I never said Tai Chi sword was lacking, per se, just that the sword-fighting context it prepares you for is limited.
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The jian, having the razor section, cleaver section, and dull section, allows for the stabbing of the rapier, slicing, AND the hacking and chopping of the sabre, AND a thick, blunt blocking/catching/grasping surface.

jaime_g wrote:It always confuses me who started with the myth that the rapiers are only stabbing weapons. Sure, thrusts are the main attack, but cuts are everywhere in most rapier methods, particularly in spanish rapier, where cuts are essential.

The belief that a rapier is primarily a stabbing weapon likely stems from its design and historical use.

Rapiers are long, slender swords with a sharp point, designed for thrusting attacks rather than slashing or cutting. This design makes them highly effective for delivering precise and lethal thrusts, especially in the context of dueling or one-on-one combat where accuracy and speed are paramount. Additionally, the rapier's blade is often stiff and well-balanced, further enhancing its suitability for thrusting motions.

Historically, rapiers were popularized during the Renaissance era, particularly in Europe, where they were commonly used as civilian weapons for self-defense and dueling. Their emphasis on thrusting attacks made them well-suited for the etiquette and rules of formal duels, where combatants aimed to incapacitate or kill their opponents with a single, well-placed thrust.

While rapiers can certainly deliver slashing or cutting attacks, they are not as effective for these motions compared to swords specifically designed for slashing, such as sabers or broadswords. As a result, the rapier's reputation as a primarily stabbing weapon is reinforced by its design and historical use in dueling and self-defense contexts.

wayne hansen wrote:Even the two man Dao form is all cuts to vital points

Bao wrote:Yes, no one would try to grasp a jian, but the dao can be grabbed and also pushed. However, anyone who knows dao swordplay would circle, twist and turn the sword, making it very hard to read the direction and the sword's angle upon hit. This is one reason why dao swordplay looks more elaborate and fancy than the more clean strikes by the Japanese Katana. It might not be as fast, but you can use it in a way that you confuse the opponent.

origami_itto wrote:I never said Tai Chi sword was lacking, per se, just that the sword-fighting context it prepares you for is limited.
...
The jian, having the razor section, cleaver section, and dull section, allows for the stabbing of the rapier, slicing, AND the hacking and chopping of the sabre, AND a thick, blunt blocking/catching/grasping surface.

Don't you contradict yourself a bit? When you can use the jian in so many different ways, why would it be limited? What about the dao would be less limited?

wayne hansen wrote:The jian is most defiantly a cutting blade
I’m sure the rapier is likewise
Grabbing blades is not something I like
Too much room for error
I’m not a swordsman and unless you have faced someone with a live blade set to do you harm neither are most people