the rum soaked fist: internal martial arts forum

Enjoyable video of a little known form of Irish folk wrestling,
hand holds are fixed so footwork and leg traps, bites and sweeps are key.



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zIfQdt2j5uA


Some background history

https://youtu.be/ONbQRqw5kCQ?si=OTpuK18z9oocPceq

Thanks for sharing this video. I love the whole 'spirit' of their competitive interactions, and the music added a festive, playful vibe to the gathering. Very cool!

From a more technical perspective, it appears to be a skill which is learned through the regular experience of wrestling from an early age, more than through formal instruction on how to practice and apply it.

As a result, many attempts were made to execute good techniques from beyond their most effective range of applications, and superior size and/or strength decided numerous matches, rather than refined technical expertise. Correcting those errors alone would vastly enhance the personal combat efficiency of all the techniques.

Doc Stier wrote:Thanks for sharing this video. I love the whole 'spirit' of their competitive interactions, and the music added a festive, playful vibe to the gathering. Very cool!

From a more technical perspective, it appears to be a skill which is learned through the regular experience of wrestling from an early age, more than through formal instruction on how to practice and apply it.

As a result, many attempts were made to execute good techniques from beyond their most effective range of applications, and superior size and/or strength decided numerous matches, rather than refined technical expertise. Correcting those errors alone would vastly enhance the personal combat efficiency of all the techniques.

Yeah! Maybe they could stop this whole ‘learning through actually trying to do it’ thing…. Perhaps instead they could invent some forms… get their technique perfect and beautiful before attempting to apply it… maybe some silk pyjamas….. then of course we’ll need to have students and disciples and only the disciples get the real stuff, and then only sometimes, and we can have demonstrations instead of competitions… and link it to Confucian inspired pretend Taoism…. it will be much more…. Like Chinese martial arts….

denchen wrote:Enjoyable video of a little known form of Irish folk wrestling,
hand holds are fixed so footwork and leg traps, bites and sweeps are key.



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zIfQdt2j5uA


Some background history

https://youtu.be/ONbQRqw5kCQ?si=OTpuK18z9oocPceq

Nice! I try to learn something every day and wasn't familiar with collar-and-elbow. Thanks for the introduction.

The gent who posted the first video has some interesting training and technique videos on his YT channel: https://www.youtube.com/@Headhunterhiggins

I was struck by the similarities with Shuai jiao and Judo in terms of hip throws, leg lifts, sweeps and trips in a sport that evolved in isolation from those arts.
I think its important to remember they are competing in a restricted rule set with fixed hand holds. In comparison with players in similar push hands competitions ( in which I took part over a number of years ) their technique generally held up well I thought and looked transferable outside the format.

denchen wrote:I was struck by the similarities with Shuai jiao and Judo in terms of hip throws, leg lifts, sweeps and trips in a sport that evolved in isolation from those arts.
I think its important to remember they are competing in a restricted rule set with fixed hand holds. In comparison with players in similar push hands competitions ( in which I took part over a number of years ) their technique generally held up well I thought and looked transferable outside the format.

Hip throw is a hip throw. I've got to say I've been quite taken with Tom Cartmell's 'modified hip throw' recently - which to me looks like it's got Chinese influence - I've managed to land this a few times in sparring now.

https://www.instagram.com/p/C33BhIpxH8m/

You put them down fast and hard and it's much easier to get live than the standard judo hip throw, at least for me.

(Obviously, this one would be illegal in 'collar and elbow' wrestling, if your hand can never leave the collar).

GrahamB wrote:
Hip throw is a hip throw. I've got to say I've been quite taken with Tom Cartmell's 'modified hip throw' recently - which to me looks like it's got Chinese influence

I was in a push hands competition a few years back and scored points with a hip throw. My mate who was watching overhead another spectator comment ; " ahh, Judo ! ".

I liked the clip you linked, interestingly the way he stepped across to pin the opponents foot before the throw is also shown as a technique in collar and elbow.

It’s very similar to a lot of shuai jiao throws. It’s like no 15 here but grabbing the belt at the back not front:

https://youtu.be/gKfM5iOqoKw?si=yB_w3xnYBnzuX07o

Also - I don’t think there’s any need to trap a foot (ie actually step on it) when you do this - works fine without.

GrahamB wrote:
Hip throw is a hip throw. I've got to say I've been quite taken with Tom Cartmell's 'modified hip throw' recently - which to me looks like it's got Chinese influence - I've managed to land this a few times in sparring now.

https://www.instagram.com/p/C33BhIpxH8m/

You put them down fast and hard and it's much easier to get live than the standard judo hip throw, at least for me.

(Obviously, this one would be illegal in 'collar and elbow' wrestling, if your hand can never leave the collar).

Nice! Thanks for posting this.

Benny Urquidez spinning back kick and devestating ippon seoi nage