the rum soaked fist: internal martial arts forum

wayne hansen wrote:So what is it that makes these modern

emptycloud wrote:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9ymjrYzT2B0

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bNo6IlCqAmI

for the modern aikidoa amongst us..

Rich

Morihei Ueshiba's Aikido is Daito ryu
We all know that "pre-war aikido" really isn't aikido at all but Daito ryu. It's that simple.

So, for a timeframe up until the late 1930's to the early 1940's, we have Daito ryu in some incarnation from Ueshiba. Aiki News Issue 74 (page 58) shows various names Ueshiba used throughout the years and it's a very significant thing that it wasn't really called "Aikido" until 1942.

And two things happened after the war:
1. Ueshiba rarely taught at Tokyo.
2. Kisshomaru changed Aikido for a worldwide appeal.

Now, Ueshiba retired to Iwama and that war changed everyone. But, the one thing that it didn't change and couldn't was the core skill given to Ueshiba by Takeda -- Daito ryu aiki.

Also, Saito's teachings are close to what Ueshiba was doing in 1938. And quite a bit of what Takeda's students held as being Daito ryu can be found to be very, very similar to what Ueshiba espoused.

===
Aiki News Issue 68:
Quote:
Takeda wrote:
This technique is a perfect self-defense art where you avoid being cut, hit or kicked while at the same time you don't hit, kick or cut. As the attack comes you handle it expediently using the power of your opponent.
Sounds like what other people say about aikido using the attacker's energy against themselves.

===
Aiki News Issue 073

Here we would like to reproduce the main points of an article entitled, "The aiki Self-Defense Techniques of Daito-ryu" written by Horikawa Sensei and published in the "Yuseikoho" in Yubetsu:
Quote:
Yawara (jujutsu techniques) which are peculiar to Japan have been transmitted for more than a thousand years. The basis of these techniques is called the "theory of yawara". In this system you adapt your movements to those of your opponent when he comes to attack you using force and you control him and defeat him using his power. Especially in the techniques of Aiki, there are techniques for all parts of the bodies including the hands, legs, shoulders and chest. With these techniques you can freely defeat your opponent in a thousand different ways by utilizing his power, taking away his power or attacking him on his unguarded side. You adapt yourself to the circumstances. These techniques are comprehensive in nature where you take quick measures suited to the occasion." Further, Horikawa Sensei explains that in Daito-ryu, "you don't cut your opponent nor are you cut by him, you don't strike him nor are you struck by him, you don't kick him nor are you kicked by him". These words not only represent the essence of Daito-ryu but also the beliefs and life view of Kodo Horikawa.
Adapt your movements to those of your opponent = aikido blending

Defeat him using his power = aikido use of attacker's energy against himself

Defeat your opponent in a thousand different ways = Ueshiba stating there are thousands of techniques.

Don't strike your opponent = the no attacks in aikido mantra

===
Aiki News Issue 78
Quote:
Yoshihisa Ishibashi wrote:
Although in the Aikido world, Aiki is understood in various ways, I feel that there are people who know nothing about Aiki who are confusing practitioners with abstract and quasi-spiritual expressions. Originally, Aiki is rational and something any new practitioner can understand theoretically.

Aiki is expressed in simple terms is a general name for various techniques which contain "shinpo" (mental dimension), "giho" (technical dimension) and "kokyuho" (breathing dimension) which are used to instantaneously incapacitate the offensive or defensive power of an opponent and draw him into one's own rhythm. It is something profound which cannot be expressed in a word.
===
Aiki News Issue 079
Quote:
Kondo wrote:
I don't think there is any difference. In Daito-ryu too practice begins and ends with courtesy. And its final goal is the spirit of love and harmony.
===
Aiki News Issue 084
Quote:
Kiyokazu Maebayashi (about Sagawa) wrote:
When I am on the receiving end of one of Sagawa Sensei's techniques, I don't feel any power from the point at which we are connected, but I feel an energy which penetrates my whole body to affect my center and break my balance. Because my body does not sense Sensei's intention, it is unable to respond to his power and thus unable to resist it.
Sounds like being connected and also the no resistance in aikido theme.

===
Takeda, Sagawa, Kodo, Ueshiba, Hisa, Okamoto all said you can make up waza. Everything that Ueshiba did, even in his later years, can all be found in Daito ryu.

Just as Sagawa improvised, changed, and modified what he had learned ... but still trained Daito ryu.

Just as Kodo viewed his training ... and continued Daito ryu.

So Ueshiba did Daito ryu all his life in his own personal manner.

slowEdie wrote:I think this post by MM on Aikiweb(9-11-2006)
Sums it up nicely..

slowEdie wrote:I think this post by MM on Aikiweb(9-11-2006)
Sums it up nicely..

Morihei Ueshiba's Aikido is Daito ryu
We all know that "pre-war aikido" really isn't aikido at all but Daito ryu. It's that simple.

So, for a timeframe up until the late 1930's to the early 1940's, we have Daito ryu in some incarnation from Ueshiba. Aiki News Issue 74 (page 58) shows various names Ueshiba used throughout the years and it's a very significant thing that it wasn't really called "Aikido" until 1942.

And two things happened after the war:
1. Ueshiba rarely taught at Tokyo.
2. Kisshomaru changed Aikido for a worldwide appeal.

Now, Ueshiba retired to Iwama and that war changed everyone. But, the one thing that it didn't change and couldn't was the core skill given to Ueshiba by Takeda -- Daito ryu aiki.

Also, Saito's teachings are close to what Ueshiba was doing in 1938. And quite a bit of what Takeda's students held as being Daito ryu can be found to be very, very similar to what Ueshiba espoused.

===
Aiki News Issue 68:
Quote:
Takeda wrote:
This technique is a perfect self-defense art where you avoid being cut, hit or kicked while at the same time you don't hit, kick or cut. As the attack comes you handle it expediently using the power of your opponent.
Sounds like what other people say about aikido using the attacker's energy against themselves.

===
Aiki News Issue 073

Here we would like to reproduce the main points of an article entitled, "The aiki Self-Defense Techniques of Daito-ryu" written by Horikawa Sensei and published in the "Yuseikoho" in Yubetsu:
Quote:
Yawara (jujutsu techniques) which are peculiar to Japan have been transmitted for more than a thousand years. The basis of these techniques is called the "theory of yawara". In this system you adapt your movements to those of your opponent when he comes to attack you using force and you control him and defeat him using his power. Especially in the techniques of Aiki, there are techniques for all parts of the bodies including the hands, legs, shoulders and chest. With these techniques you can freely defeat your opponent in a thousand different ways by utilizing his power, taking away his power or attacking him on his unguarded side. You adapt yourself to the circumstances. These techniques are comprehensive in nature where you take quick measures suited to the occasion." Further, Horikawa Sensei explains that in Daito-ryu, "you don't cut your opponent nor are you cut by him, you don't strike him nor are you struck by him, you don't kick him nor are you kicked by him". These words not only represent the essence of Daito-ryu but also the beliefs and life view of Kodo Horikawa.
Adapt your movements to those of your opponent = aikido blending

Defeat him using his power = aikido use of attacker's energy against himself

Defeat your opponent in a thousand different ways = Ueshiba stating there are thousands of techniques.

Don't strike your opponent = the no attacks in aikido mantra

===
Aiki News Issue 78
Quote:
Yoshihisa Ishibashi wrote:
Although in the Aikido world, Aiki is understood in various ways, I feel that there are people who know nothing about Aiki who are confusing practitioners with abstract and quasi-spiritual expressions. Originally, Aiki is rational and something any new practitioner can understand theoretically.

Aiki is expressed in simple terms is a general name for various techniques which contain "shinpo" (mental dimension), "giho" (technical dimension) and "kokyuho" (breathing dimension) which are used to instantaneously incapacitate the offensive or defensive power of an opponent and draw him into one's own rhythm. It is something profound which cannot be expressed in a word.
===
Aiki News Issue 079
Quote:
Kondo wrote:
I don't think there is any difference. In Daito-ryu too practice begins and ends with courtesy. And its final goal is the spirit of love and harmony.
===
Aiki News Issue 084
Quote:
Kiyokazu Maebayashi (about Sagawa) wrote:
When I am on the receiving end of one of Sagawa Sensei's techniques, I don't feel any power from the point at which we are connected, but I feel an energy which penetrates my whole body to affect my center and break my balance. Because my body does not sense Sensei's intention, it is unable to respond to his power and thus unable to resist it.
Sounds like being connected and also the no resistance in aikido theme.

===
Takeda, Sagawa, Kodo, Ueshiba, Hisa, Okamoto all said you can make up waza. Everything that Ueshiba did, even in his later years, can all be found in Daito ryu.

Just as Sagawa improvised, changed, and modified what he had learned ... but still trained Daito ryu.

Just as Kodo viewed his training ... and continued Daito ryu.

So Ueshiba did Daito ryu all his life in his own personal manner.

WVMark wrote:

slowEdie wrote:I think this post by MM on Aikiweb(9-11-2006)
Sums it up nicely..

No, it doesn't. The question was asked of emptycloud. So far, no answer. Either the thread was started seriously or as Dmitri posted "starting pointless BS threads that he knows will stir shit. AKA "trolling"."
viewtopic.php?f=8&t=23221&st=0&sk=t&sd=a#p390564

emptycloud wrote:
hey Mark.

Seems you got this troll thing going on in your brain, not my problem.

The vids are modern because they are contemporary interpretations of Aikido.
Over the years here on RSF " Modern Aikido " has been the general sub title to just about every Aikido clip posted, so I simply made it overt.

I like them both and put them up in the off chance that people may benefit from them....no more, no less, couldn't care less.

Your complicating things with this troll agenda....

Rich

http://stevekbs.tripod.com/id29.html

Andy_S wrote:FFS, enough about "trolling."

"Trolls" are nouns, not verbs. They are horrible hairy monsters that lie in wait under Scandinavian bridges and consume unwary passers by.

People who stir shit on Interweb forums are:
(1) Far less fearsome
(2) Far less interesting; and (regrettably)
(3) Far more numerous
Than real trolls.

If I were a patent attorney in Oslo, Copenhagen or Stockholm, I would make a very nice living suing every bastard who abuses the noble intellectual property of these much-abused beasties.

WVMark wrote:

emptycloud wrote:
hey Mark.

Seems you got this troll thing going on in your brain, not my problem.

The vids are modern because they are contemporary interpretations of Aikido.
Over the years here on RSF " Modern Aikido " has been the general sub title to just about every Aikido clip posted, so I simply made it overt.

I like them both and put them up in the off chance that people may benefit from them....no more, no less, couldn't care less.

Your complicating things with this troll agenda....

Rich


http://stevekbs.tripod.com/id29.html

So, you have no clue what Modern Aikido is, except that it's been talked about here on RSF and you just decided to post two videos and say "for the modern aikidoa amongst us.. " without ever starting a serious discussion about the videos ... and then state about the videos "couldn't care less". On any other board, that'd be called trolling. At the very least, you've broken the rules for the video forum. Maybe the mods will move this to the pit like the other thread you started.

Mark