modern aikido

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Re: modern aikido

Postby emptycloud on Fri Mar 27, 2015 8:15 am

WVMark wrote:
emptycloud wrote:
what I practice is so dull and slow, its as if nothing is going on...

I know nothing of dancing Gods, and yin or yang...( this is Scotland pal...)

Rich


1. Aikido Today Magazine; #31 Dec.93/ Jan. 94
Interview of Henry Kono sensei by Virginia Mayhew and Susan Perry.
ATM: When you had conversations like these with O'sensei, what would you talk about?
HK: Well, I would usually ask him why the rest of us couldn't do what he could. there were many other teachers, all doing aikido. But he was doing it differently - doing something differently. His movement was so clean!
ATM: How would O'sensei answer your questions about what he was doing?
HK: He would say that I didn't understand yin and yang [in and yo]. So, now I've made it my life work to study yin and yang. That's what O'sensei told me to do.


So, Ueshiba's physical skills and abilities were different. When Kono asked why they were so different, Ueshiba answered ... "I didn't understand yin and yang".

Ueshiba is seen in demonstrations time and again, twirling his shortened spear calling it the Dance of the Gods.

Ueshiba commonly had people push and pull on him in all sorts of different ways.

Modern Aikido ... lacks all of this ... and more.

I really don't know what you're practicing, but it sounds like you aren't training the founder's aikido. In your own words, you don't know what yin/yang mean or the Dance of the Gods. This isn't about you as there is a whole world of people out there who were never shown these things, either. Their teachers told them what they were told. And the Japanese shihan coming out of Tokyo ... many of them didn't get it either. Those that did ... well, how many of their students started to equal them in skills/abilities?

There is a proven, verifiable training methodology to pass on Ueshiba's skills and abilities. If you're training aikido and you aren't starting to stand out from everyone else in five years ... something's wrong. By starting to stand out, I mean that when you play with judo or bjj people, they should have a much harder time with you than anyone else. Doesn't mean you're going to excel or be unstoppable but you definitely should be giving them a much harder time of it than anyone else ... by just training Ueshiba's aikido.

Ueshiba's aikido is a body changing method, not a technique oriented martial art as Kisshomaru created. If you think going to BJJ and you're going to use this or that technique ... you're not doing Ueshiba's aikido. Joint locks weren't techniques but part of the body changing method of training. Ueshiba truly meant what he said to Kono. Yin/yang is a foundation for aiki. No yin/yang, no aiki. Ueshiba showed his understanding outside of techniques and waza by having people push on him and remaning unmoved. Why? He knew the secret of aiki. Body changing method.

If you don't understand how yin/yang creates skills and abilities like Ueshiba had ... you aren't doing Ueshiba's aikido. If you have to move and use timing to replicate yin/yang, you aren't doing Ueshiba's aikido.

Modern Aikido has a lot going for it. There are millions training it. It has validity to them. However, I think they do a huge disservice to Kisshomaru. It's his picture that should be on their shomen. He not only held together his vision of aikido (when he really didn't want to be part of aikido), but he grew aikido to a worldwide audience right after World War 2. That wasn't an easy task. He created Modern Aikido. It should be to him that aikido people point and uphold. Morihei Ueshiba's aikido is vastly different.


We have people from other aikido clubs and martial styles drop by occasionally. They are usually pretty baffled by our set up.
No warm up exercises, no bowing or Oriental terminology. No sensei, no photographs or calligraphy hanging around.

The class kind of spontaneously begins, no particular thing in mind, someone might kick it off with a punch or perhaps a knife might appear, or a certain movement gets noticed... the practice will just unfold from there, problems will arise, we will study why is it a problem, who or what is causing the problem...

We had two aikido teachers from Germany drop by recently, they asked how many members we had, " 6 maybe 7 " was the answer, how many in your club, " over a 100 " they replied.. wow..what a nightmare..

The teachers really struggled to understand what was going on, they couldn't understand that an aikido class could have no structure or sensei or grades or exclusive technique training... it was chaos for them, and they graded in Japan...

From experience we have learnt to be careful with visitors they can get quite angry and think you are making fun of them. This is where the danger comes in, unable to use technique and confused with whats going on they tend lunge or try to crank things on, which is never pretty. Now we tend to explain to visitors that we are not your regular aikido club, and take things slowly.

Are we training in the founders aikido, who knows, if the founder studied " form is emptiness, emptiness is form " then perhaps we are, if he didn't then perhaps we are not.

It really doesn't matter to us, this kind of thing we are doing predates Aikido. It informed Aikido...its a human thing, its there if you interested in it.

Aikido is a name we should probably change about our practice, but because we do not seek newbies or advertise the class we don't really care.. its not something anyone has thought about round here for decades..

as for body changing methods goes....transformative, beyond anything I imagined..mind changing as well... life changing.. all freely given..

we just roll on.....into the mystery of it all...

Rich
Last edited by emptycloud on Fri Mar 27, 2015 8:48 am, edited 3 times in total.
emptycloud

 

Re: modern aikido

Postby emptycloud on Fri Mar 27, 2015 8:23 am

Bodywork wrote:
emptycloud wrote:I know nothing of dancing Gods, and yin or yang...( this is Scotland pal...)

Yet you are wearing Japanese pajamas and doing an art form
The real answer is.
"Dan, I don't know what the founder of my art was doing or what he meant in how the art I am studying was meant to be practiced."
This... is particularly interesting in light of the fact that you freely admit your own practice is a mystery to yourself.
How is this even possible. Its a mystery to me.
Rich

I know what I am doing.
I know what Ueshiba was doing.
It seems wiser to understand what one is spending time doing.
Anyway, I think we are spending too much time on individual practice. I am uninterested in one man's pursuit of an entire art. The discussion should be bigger than that.



we wear japanese pyjama because they are practical. They don't rip that easily and seem to last forever.. one guy wears a rugby shirt and sweats.. no big deal.. just bits of cloth...

If the founder was studying " form is emptiness, emptiness is form " then perhaps we are on the same page, if not, who cares... this stuff is way older than aikido, as many have stated endlessly..

Because our practice is transformative then it is mysterious... for something to be truly transformative you have to take a risk into the unknown, the unknown is mysterious else it would not be unknown and would not be transformative... said the butterfly to the caterpillar....

Rich
emptycloud

 

Re: modern aikido

Postby allen2saint on Fri Mar 27, 2015 10:18 am

And I think you should embed this at the end of your posts, Rich.

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Re: modern aikido

Postby emptycloud on Fri Mar 27, 2015 10:23 am

allen2saint wrote:And I think you should embed this at the end of your posts, Rich.



had kung fu pyjamas in the 70's.. went nut when it came on the TV...

Carradine also managed to die an excellent death...what a dude..

good bit of executive editing of my post...many thanks

Rich
emptycloud

 

Re: modern aikido

Postby Bodywork on Fri Mar 27, 2015 10:29 am

Well then, butterfly..
As you've transformed in your mystery... (just ribbing you)

To your practice and comments:
*What makes you heavy?
*What makes you light?
*Do you weight more and then less as you go through your process?
*How did you and you crew do it?
*Did you re-invent the wheel or were you taught this?
Do you know? Or, Is it still a mystery to you?

Processes:
Would you be surprised to know that Ueshiba taught how to do it? It's a classical model.
You seem to not care at all what Ueshiba was doing... Which is pretty insulting since you have then co-ppted his name and legacy for your own pursuits.
Okay then
In your art, the.. "O- gasumi ryu" (it means (big mist) how do you do these things! Is it a feeling that you imagine and sometimes works but then goes away?
*What have you struggled to discover .. that could have been taught to you in a few days?
How many more things remain a mystery *to you*, that are known models that can be simply handed to you by the founder of the art of aiki-do that either might save you years, or you will never find at all?
What a gambel to make..on your time.


In Aikiweb you should look up Mar Eastman and Ron Ragusa they left their aikido teacher to train....ready...wait..
"Correct feeling"
They don't know how to talk about what it is..They just feel it and know its correct
And...
They call it *their* aikido
I keep asking them to explain how they can claim to reach a man's legacy that they know nothing about. All I get is... they feel it so its correct.
Bodywork

 

Re: modern aikido

Postby Bodywork on Fri Mar 27, 2015 10:30 am

Good grief. Just think of this:
Tommorow, I'm going to start claiming to teach Wang Chu Shin's Swimming palm bagua
*I don't know what he was talking about
*I don't know what he did
*I can't do what he did.
*I can't answer questions about his actual teaching.
But... I'm told none of that matters in the modern world.
So I'm going to teach his legacy as modern Swimming palm bagua

Hey... I'm told that if we can get enough people to *all* do it.... wrong. That it then becomes... Right.
The good news is that we don't have to even know what the hell he was doing. We can just steal his legacy and say
"Him? We don't care about him. His art is now mine. Don't ask me about all that Chinese stuff...I'm an American.."
Anyone know where I can buy some silkies?

What a world. ..
They only get away with it... because he is dead. Otherwise, I envision Ueshiba, showing up and shouting: "This is not my aikido!" Taking his picture off their wall, knockung them on their ass and walking out the door.

I wonder how many other founders would do the same. The Asian equivalent of WTF! What happened while I was dead?
Last edited by Bodywork on Fri Mar 27, 2015 10:53 am, edited 6 times in total.
Bodywork

 

Re: modern aikido

Postby Aqui on Fri Mar 27, 2015 10:47 am

Bodywork wrote:Good grief. Just think of this:
Tommorow, I'm going to start claiming to teach Wang Chu Shin's Swimming palm bagua
*I don't know what he was talking about
*I don't know what he did
*I can't do what he did.
*I can't answer questions about his actual teaching.
But... I'm told none of that matters in the modern world.
So I'm going to teach his legacy as modern Swimming palm bagua

Hey... I'm told that if we can get enough people to *all* do it.... wrong. That it then becomes... Right.
The good news is that we don't have to even know what the hell he was doing. We can just steal his legacy and say
"Him? We don't care about him. His art is now mine. Don't ask me about all that Chinese stuff...I'm an American.."
Anyone know where I can buy some silkies?

What a world. ..


Best summary of what goes wrong in nowadays Aikido!!!!
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Re: modern aikido

Postby Aqui on Fri Mar 27, 2015 10:50 am

@Emptycloud: Dude you should switch the name of whatever you are doing to something else, preferably something completely new ( maybe Emptycloud-Do or Emptycloud-Ryu or just some New Age whatever).
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Re: modern aikido

Postby I am... on Fri Mar 27, 2015 10:51 am

Bodywork wrote:Good grief. Just think of this:
Tommorow, I'm going to start claiming to teach Wang Chu Shin's Swimming palm bagua
*I don't know what he was talking about
*I don't know what he did
*I can't do what he did.
*I can't answer questions about his actual teaching.
But... I'm told none of that matters in the modern world.
So I'm going to teach his legacy as modern Swimming palm bagua

Hey... I'm told that if we can get enough people to *all* do it.... wrong. That it then becomes... Right.
The good news is that we don't have to even know what the hell he was doing. We can just steal his legacy and say
"Him? We don't care about him. His art is now mine. Don't ask me about all that Chinese stuff...I'm an American.."
Anyone know where I can buy some silkies?

What a world. ..
They only get away with it... because he is dead. Otherwise, Ueshiba would show up, take his picture off their wall, tell them off and knock them on their ass

I couldnt agree more. People that do this tend to get "visited" by those that care about the standard of their art.
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Re: modern aikido

Postby Aqui on Fri Mar 27, 2015 10:53 am

@ Dan/ Bodywork: I spoke to a few guys that actually met you and it seems you actually got the real internal stuff and teach it aswell, thanks for that, wish there were more around with that blend of skill and openness!
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Re: modern aikido

Postby emptycloud on Fri Mar 27, 2015 10:58 am

Bodywork,

I guess if we advertised our practice and put a price on it, then yeah we would have to think about the name of the art more seriously.

However no money changes hands, nobody promotes the practice, people come by word of mouth or accident.

I think the group has been running now for 35yrs.. maybe more no one can remember or cares to..

The name aikido stuck because it grew out of a splinter group who used to practice KI aikido, but got fed up of its wacky ways.

We should probably do something about what we call our practice, but who to, who cares. I shall raise the issue on Monday night..

its a funny old world..

Rich

ps. There are no pictures on the wall of dead old men, why bow to a photograph, thats nuts, thats why this group exists in the first place.

perhaps we could be called - Aikido for Atheists..
Last edited by emptycloud on Fri Mar 27, 2015 11:02 am, edited 2 times in total.
emptycloud

 

Re: modern aikido

Postby Bodywork on Fri Mar 27, 2015 11:07 am

by Aqui on Fri Mar 27, 2015 1:53 pm
@ Dan/ Bodywork: I spoke to a few guys that actually met you and it seems you actually got the real internal stuff and teach it aswell, thanks for that, wish there were more around with that blend of skill and openness!


Thanks but I'm just a small fish in a big pond and I am really not the point.
it is not my thread.
It is about stuff that has been around for generations.

Modern Aikido
It's embarrassing that aikido is all but bankrupt, its teachers virtually defenseless to explain what their own founder was doing and talking about
We could say "who cares!" except:
*They feel like they do,
*He felt like he did,
* Those still chasing what he was actually talking about?
*Start to feel more and more.....like him.
I travel the world putting hands on modern aikido teachers every other week and asking?
"Why do -you- feel like this?
Why do -I- feel more like him?
Explain yourself?
Enough with the bullshit already. Just admit you don't know what you're talking about
Last edited by Bodywork on Fri Mar 27, 2015 11:19 am, edited 1 time in total.
Bodywork

 

Re: modern aikido

Postby Bodywork on Fri Mar 27, 2015 11:16 am

Hi Rich
It's kind of true, you should call it something else. Bit it's your practice.
I own an architecture firm. We tend to get very serious about intellectual property.
Its why I personally will never claim uniqueness about internals. It would be fraud.
It's always better to be honest

Your stuff
Tohei had the juice. He is more of my point about this stuff going from Tibet to India to China to Japan:Tohei... got his one point?
From yoga.

Mores the point. Our understanding is in our own hands. If we don't have it...If we're not unusually stable and powerful?
Why not?
What have we been doing?
Last edited by Bodywork on Fri Mar 27, 2015 11:29 am, edited 4 times in total.
Bodywork

 

Re: modern aikido

Postby Bodywork on Fri Mar 27, 2015 11:35 am

I am... wrote:
Bodywork wrote:Good grief. Just think of this:
Tommorow, I'm going to start claiming to teach Wang Chu Shin's Swimming palm bagua
*I don't know what he was talking about
*I don't know what he did
*I can't do what he did.
*I can't answer questions about his actual teaching.
But... I'm told none of that matters in the modern world.
So I'm going to teach his legacy as modern Swimming palm bagua

Hey... I'm told that if we can get enough people to *all* do it.... wrong. That it then becomes... Right.
The good news is that we don't have to even know what the hell he was doing. We can just steal his legacy and say
"Him? We don't care about him. His art is now mine. Don't ask me about all that Chinese stuff...I'm an American.."
Anyone know where I can buy some silkies?

What a world. ..
They only get away with it... because he is dead. Otherwise, Ueshiba would show up, take his picture off their wall, tell them off and knock them on their ass

I couldnt agree more. People that do this tend to get "visited" by those that care about the standard of their art.


Well... I do... do that. Except...I am nice. Most people once they feel it, they openly laugh, are shocked when they can start to do it. They smile... a lot! I can't tell you how many times I've heard a guy who gushed..."This... is everything!"

Aikido, Taiji, any internal art... We got into it FOR the magic. So... give them the magic. It's horribly hard work, but at least they see their is a real chance, not more bullshit forms and katas to nowhere.

This... is the search that makes us brothers.
Last edited by Bodywork on Fri Mar 27, 2015 11:38 am, edited 1 time in total.
Bodywork

 

Re: modern aikido

Postby emptycloud on Fri Mar 27, 2015 12:20 pm

bodywork,

you could reduce our groups practice down to one word.. attention.

You mentioned Tohei. The chap who ran this irregular outfit before I arrived was graded by Tohei for a few decades. We still do the unbendable, unliftable, unmovable, unlovable, exercises from time to time.. weight underside, one point, all good fun etc...

but you could say its just about attention... not learning about or the how of attention, but removing the obstacles to natural abiding attention..whilst in our pyjamas... whilst been clobbered by ugly Glaswegians..

Rich
Last edited by emptycloud on Fri Mar 27, 2015 2:08 pm, edited 3 times in total.
emptycloud

 

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