modern aikido

A collection of links to internal martial arts videos. Serious martial arts videos ONLY. Joke videos go to Off the Topic.

Re: modern aikido

Postby Zonker on Sun Apr 05, 2015 7:57 pm

DeusTrismegistus wrote:
slowEdie wrote:Is this the direction Aikido should be taking ?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z3aY4wbAOHw


So I tried out the first exercise my brother and another person this morning. I had some success immediately and after 10-15 times it was working no matter how much pressure they applied. Pretty cool stuff and both of them were rather mystified about how it worked.

Dan, is this the sort of power you mean when discussing aiki or IP? I know the gent in this video mentions you. Is he someone you have trained?

I would be interested in learning more about this stuff.


What Ledyard sensei is demonstrating is called "kokyu dosa" (or sometimes "kokyu ho") and is a basic, fundamental aikido practice taught from day one in nearly every aikikai affiliated dojo. This is not modern aikido, this is something Ueshiba osensei was doing from the early days. Like Ledyard sensei said, it's usually practiced sitting seiza (kneeling) and is usually done at the conclusion of each class.
Zonker
Mingjing
 
Posts: 61
Joined: Sun Feb 09, 2014 4:31 pm
Location: Bronx

Re: modern aikido

Postby Zonker on Sun Apr 05, 2015 8:06 pm

Same, same. This is Ledyard sensei's teacher. the first technique is kokyudosa.
Last edited by Zonker on Sun Apr 05, 2015 8:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Zonker
Mingjing
 
Posts: 61
Joined: Sun Feb 09, 2014 4:31 pm
Location: Bronx

Re: modern aikido

Postby GrahamB on Mon Apr 06, 2015 12:24 pm

I preferred it pre-edit when you told me to "fuck off" Tom ;D
Last edited by GrahamB on Mon Apr 06, 2015 12:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.
One does not simply post on RSF.
The Tai Chi Notebook
User avatar
GrahamB
Great Old One
 
Posts: 13610
Joined: Fri May 02, 2008 3:30 pm

Re: modern aikido

Postby slowEdie on Mon Apr 06, 2015 1:16 pm

That could be it....old school aiki was "Fuck off"
and new "modern" (PC) is "kindly ease off"
User avatar
slowEdie
Anjing
 
Posts: 115
Joined: Mon Sep 08, 2014 8:44 pm

Re: modern aikido

Postby DeusTrismegistus on Mon Apr 06, 2015 3:54 pm

Tom wrote:
DeusTrismegistus wrote:
Dan, is this the sort of power you mean when discussing aiki or IP? I know the gent in this video mentions you. Is he someone you have trained?

I would be interested in learning more about this stuff.


George has trained with Dan several times, and George's dojo hosts Dan's seminars when he teaches in Seattle.

This kind of work at the point of contact, together with (at a later stage) power and support from dantien, is (a central part of) what Dan teaches.


Thanks Tom. I hope to someday be able to meet Dan and learn some of this stuff. It sounds pretty awesome.
I contend that for a nation to try to tax itself into prosperity is like a man standing in a

bucket and trying to lift himself up by the handle. -- Winston Churchill
User avatar
DeusTrismegistus
Wuji
 
Posts: 3702
Joined: Wed May 14, 2008 5:55 am

Re: modern aikido

Postby WVMark on Mon Apr 06, 2015 4:42 pm

Ueshiba's Aikido is Daito ryu Aiki

There is a distinction between Daito ryu the school, and Daito ryu aiki. Daito ryu aiki is the secret that Sokaku Takeda told his students to keep. Aiki is the body training method that allowed those giants of Daito ryu and aikido to stand out among all other martial artists. Morihei Ueshiba's vision of aikido is entirely based upon his level of abilities in Daito ryu aiki. While Ueshiba still showed Daito ryu techniques, he infused them with his own spiritual ideology.

Some years ago, Daito ryu was a rarely heard of martial art. In fact, for some people, they thought it was a dead martial system. Today, however, we know quite a bit more about the facts and that Daito ryu was, indeed, the primary and major defining martial influence on Morihei Ueshiba.

Most people think of Ueshiba's aikido as something very different than Daito ryu. The defining characteristic here, though, is not the comparison of Daito ryu the martial art, but rather the secret of Daito ryu, namely aiki. There is no doubt that Ueshiba removed quite a bit of the Daito ryu techniques that he knew. What always remained, though, was the aiki. Daito ryu aiki was the foundation upon which Ueshiba based both his martial and his spiritual visions. Understanding aiki as a martial body, one can see that Ueshiba's aikido is really Daito ryu aiki.

Now let's take a look at the techniques themselves. Did Ueshiba alter them? John Driscoll does an excellent job of correlating Daito ryu and aikido techniques. The conclusion is noteworthy as there is a high percentage of correlation. (1)

When we look to films of Ueshiba, we also find quite a lot of stock Daito ryu techniques. Below is a sampling of some clips. I've noted where a correlation exists between Daito ryu and what Ueshiba is doing. The pose of one hand up with one hand down is a pose that can be seen in photos of other Daito ryu students. Pinning multiple attackers is a stock Daito ryu demonstration.

NOTE: Most of the links are dead now. The videos have been pulled. I think the last youtube link is still active, though.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0XTlWDOQBno
Wakayama 1952, Ueshiba age 69.
2:10 - 1:12 Ueshiba uses atemi on elbow.
2:13-2:17 Ueshiba uses atemi on elbow.
2:18-2:22 Ueshiba uses atemi to face.
3:19-3:21 Ueshiba has hands in heaven/earth pose.
3:48 - Ueshiba starts with hands in heaven/earth pose.
3:48-3:51 - Two person shiho nage
3:52 - Ueshiba has hands in heaven/earth pose.
3:53 - Ueshiba starts with hands in heaven/earth pose.
3:53 - 4:02 - Two person shiho nage.
4:03 - Ueshiba has hands in heaven/earth pose.
4:05 - 4:20 Pin multiple technique
4:20 - Ueshiba has hands in heaven/earth pose.
8:59 - Ueshiba starts with hands in heaven/earth pose.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6kNviv37kfo
5:47 - Ueshiba has hands in heaven/earth pose.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=79PMWGtl0qM
Ueshiba 1955-58
6:00 - 6:06 Pin multiple technique
8:50 - 9:02 Pin multiple technique

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B7Cfpay1X2c
Ueshiba 1935
Multiple instances of Ueshiba with hands in heaven/earth pose.

Gaku Homma also has noticed a similarity between Ueshiba and Daito ryu: But when he [Uyeshiba] faced an opponent in migi-hanmi (right foot slightly ahead of the left and wooden sword in his right hand), with his left hand he would grasp the left side of his hakama (the "skirt" prortion of the aikido uniform worn on the lower body) and move it back and forth. … Recently, looking through some pictures of Sokaku Takeda, from whom the founder learned daito-ryu aikijujutsu, I saw the same pose. … (2)

There is a video of Kodo Horikawa demonstrating push tests. He is sitting on the floor cross legged and having students push on his head. It is very similar to demonstrations that Ueshiba is filmed doing.

Ueshiba once did a demonstration that was nearly identical to what Sokaku Takeda had demonstrated.

Nishimura Sensei: One time Ueshiba Sensei took a piece of Japanese paper and folded it into four. Then he told me to come get it. I did, but was thrown the moment I touched the paper. He was holding the paper along one edge and I was supposed to take hold of the paper along the other edge. So we were connected only through the paper. But Sensei threw me before the paper could tear. (3)

Sokaku Takeda, Yukiyoshi Sagawa, Kodo Horikawa, Morihei Ueshiba, Takuma Hisa, Seigo Okamoto all said you can make up waza. Everything that Ueshiba did, even in his later years, can all be found in Daito ryu.

And of course, it is well known now that "pre-war aikido" really isn't aikido at all but Daito ryu. Ueshiba even handed out scrolls stating it was Daito ryu. It really is that simple. For a time frame up until the late 1930's to the early 1940's, we have Daito ryu in some incarnation from Ueshiba. Aiki News Issue 74, page 58, shows various names Ueshiba used throughout the years and it's a very significant thing that it wasn't really called "Aikido" until 1942. Even Morihiro Saito's teachings and techniques are close to what Ueshiba was doing in 1938. In reference to the actual techniques taught and used, even though the curriculum was pared down, Ueshiba was still doing Daito ryu.

What about the philosophy of Daito ryu? Interestingly enough, quite a bit of what Takeda's students held as being Daito ryu can be found to be very, very similar to what Ueshiba espoused. Takeda wrote: This technique is a perfect self-defense art where you avoid being cut, hit or kicked while at the same time you don't hit, kick or cut. As the attack comes you handle it expediently using the power of your opponent. (4)

This sounds like what other people say about aikido using the attacker's energy against themselves.

Next, we look at what Kodo Horikawa wrote: Yawara (jujutsu techniques) which are peculiar to Japan have been transmitted for more than a thousand years. The basis of these techniques is called the "theory of yawara". In this system you adapt your movements to those of your opponent when he comes to attack you using force and you control him and defeat him using his power. Especially in the techniques of Aiki, there are techniques for all parts of the bodies including the hands, legs, shoulders and chest. With these techniques you can freely defeat your opponent in a thousand different ways by utilizing his power, taking away his power or attacking him on his unguarded side. You adapt yourself to the circumstances. These techniques are comprehensive in nature where you take quick measures suited to the occasion." Further, Horikawa Sensei explains that in Daito-ryu, "you don't cut your opponent nor are you cut by him, you don't strike him nor are you struck by him, you don't kick him nor are you kicked by him". These words not only represent the essence of Daito-ryu but also the beliefs and life view of Kodo Horikawa. (5)

We can see that "adapt your movements to those of your opponent" is just like blending in aikido. We can see that "defeat him using his power" is just like aikido's use of the attacker's energy against himself/herself. We can see that "defeat your opponent in a thousand different ways" is the same as Ueshiba stating there are thousands of techniques. Lastly, we can see that don't strike your opponent is the same as the no attacks in aikido mantra. Even Ueshiba finds similar attributes as noted here:

Ueshiba: What I am talking about is a system of harmony through spiritual actions. Japanese budo is based on "masakatsu" (correct victory) and no one fights or cuts people. Those who send their opponents flying have a policy of aggression. That kind of act hampers the actions of the person. In Aikido we never hit the sword of the opponent. All we have to do is raise his two fingers and help him. (6)

Yoshihisa Ishibashi, of Daito ryu, also talks about similar concepts: Aiki is expressed in simple terms is a general name for various techniques which contain "shinpo" (mental dimension), "giho" (technical dimension) and "kokyuho" (breathing dimension) which are used to instantaneously incapacitate the offensive or defensive power of an opponent and draw him into one's own rhythm. It is something profound which cannot be expressed in a word. (7)

Katsuyuki Kondo thinks that Daito ryu and aikido are very similar. "I don't think there is any difference. In Daito-ryu too practice begins and ends with courtesy. And its final goal is the spirit of love and harmony." (8)

If we turn to Yukiyoshi Sagawa, we find this:

Kiyokazu Maebayashi (about Sagawa) wrote: When I am on the receiving end of one of Sagawa Sensei's techniques, I don't feel any power from the point at which we are connected, but I feel an energy which penetrates my whole body to affect my center and break my balance. Because my body does not sense Sensei's intention, it is unable to respond to his power and thus unable to resist it. (9)

That is the very essence of being connected in aikido, and also it shows the concept of no resistance in aikido. Just as Sagawa improvised, changed, and modified what he had learned from Takeda, so did Ueshiba. The difference is that Ueshiba's interests were both martial and spiritual. Ueshiba did Daito ryu aiki throughout his life in his own personal spiritual manner.

Ueshiba distanced himself from Takeda, and in doing so, he distanced himself from the name, Daito ryu. By doing this, he looked to change the name of what he was doing. We can recall that at one point, Takeda changed the name to Daito ryu aikijujutsu, and we know that Ueshiba taught aikijujutsu. It isn't hard to see how Ueshiba changed the name to aikibudo, dropping Daito ryu altogether. When a Japanese organization stated that they wanted to call these arts aikido, it wasn't a hard decision for Ueshiba to agree. It really was what he was doing, anyway.

Ueshiba, near the end of his life stated it so simply: "Aiki? I am aiki!" He was and he had received aiki from Sokaku Takeda. Even to the end, Ueshiba was Daito ryu aiki, but because of something that had happened between him and Takeda, he quit referencing his teacher's art -- Daito ryu. But he never stopped being it.

1. http://www.aikiweb.com/forums/showthread.php?t=15096

2. Black Belt 1984 Vol 22 No 10

3. Aiki News Issue 087

4. Aiki News Issue 068

5. Aiki News Issue 073

6. Aiki News Issue 075

7. Aiki News Issue 078

8. Aiki News Issue 079

9. Aiki News Issue 084
WVMark
Huajing
 
Posts: 458
Joined: Sun Jul 06, 2008 7:02 am

Re: modern aikido

Postby Chris Li on Mon Apr 06, 2015 6:17 pm

WVMark wrote: What about the philosophy of Daito ryu? Interestingly enough, quite a bit of what Takeda's students held as being Daito ryu can be found to be very, very similar to what Ueshiba espoused. Takeda wrote: This technique is a perfect self-defense art where you avoid being cut, hit or kicked while at the same time you don't hit, kick or cut. As the attack comes you handle it expediently using the power of your opponent. (4)


Tokimune Takeda said "the essential principle of Daito-ryu is Love and Harmony".

Best,

Chris
Chris Li
Mingjing
 
Posts: 95
Joined: Fri Dec 03, 2010 4:47 pm
Location: Honolulu, HI

Re: modern aikido

Postby Andy_S on Mon Apr 06, 2015 11:39 pm

SNIP
Tokimune Takeda said "the essential principle of Daito-ryu is Love and Harmony".
SNIP

I thought Daito-ryu was purely a martial art. Are you suggesting it also contains elements of these mysterious Tantric sex arts?
Services available:
Pies scoffed. Ales quaffed. Beds shat. Oiks irked. Chavs chinned. Thugs thumped. Sacks split. Arses goosed. Udders ogled. Canines consumed. Sheep shagged.Matrons outraged. Vicars enlightened. PM for rates.
User avatar
Andy_S
Great Old One
 
Posts: 7559
Joined: Tue May 13, 2008 6:16 pm

Re: modern aikido

Postby WVMark on Tue Apr 07, 2015 6:11 pm

Aiki. Daito ryu aiki. Modern Aikido aiki. Morihei Ueshiba's aiki. Aiki, the word that evades definitions while at the same time is defined in an infinite way. Why are there such various definitions from love to harmony to appropriately matching energy? The answer is that Modern Aikido wasn't taught Ueshiba's aiki.

Let me first turn to Modern Aikido. Morihei Ueshiba didn't really teach everyone, and most importantly, he did not teach everything that he knew about aiki. No wonder then, that his students were left to gather bits and pieces of what they could. A very noteworthy item is that the rest of the world had little to no interaction with fully aiki capable martial artists. There were few people who actually had hands on training with Takeda, Ueshiba, Sagawa, Kodo, or even Mifune of judo fame. Instead, like blindfolded men in a room trying to describe an elephant, which is not even in the room, Modern Aikido students had no basis upon which to define the martial aiki. They were left with Morihei Ueshiba's spiritual ideology of how he defined aiki in a secondary sense and as explained by Kisshomaru.

Kisshomaru Ueshiba modified his father's spiritual ideology enough so that aikido would be better suited to a worldwide appeal. He focused on the secondary spiritual definition of harmony for aiki rather than the primary martial definition of aiki. There are two very good reasons for this. First, it was after the Second World War and those times in Japan were extremely difficult. I can't imagine the tough times that he had to live through. I can only respect him for everything that he accomplished, which was a great many things. The second reason was that Morihei Ueshiba never really taught anyone the full complement of the martial aiki, not even his son. By the time Kisshomaru Ueshiba came to power, his father was nearing the end of his life. No one can really find fault in Kisshomaru Ueshiba's decisions or actions. Through Kisshomaru Ueshiba and Koichi Tohei, Modern Aikido became popular throughout the entire world.

Modern Aikido has more than fulfilled Kisshomaru Ueshiba's views of a spiritual aikido. In a world full of fighting, war, killing, murder, and cruelty, the people of Modern Aikido have stepped up to show that there is a better way of living. Even Morihei Ueshiba said that one could make his/her own way in regards to the spiritual and one didn't have to follow in his footsteps. Let's turn the focus to Ueshiba's aiki now.

Let me start with the yin/yang aspect. From Invincible Warrior by John Stevens: Regarding Takeda, "His extraordinary ability was due to mind control, technical perfection honed in countless battles, and mastery of aiki, the blending of positive and negative energy."

Here we have an account of Takeda's aiki being defined by a blending of positive and negative energy. Yin/Yang. Not just one or the other, but both of them working together. Other people have defined that as contradictory forces. When Henry Kono asked Ueshiba about what he was doing, Kono was told that he didn't understand in and yo. (1) In and yo are yet more terms for yin and yang. Daito ryu uses in and yo instead of yin and yang.

Rinjiro Shirata writes: The purified workings of Mother Nature, which keep the whole great universe in order, are but manifestations of the Great Love. By means of the breath (iki) of the Heavens and the breath of the Earth, through the in and yo (yin and yang) the multitude of things has come to be born. The breath of the Heavens and the Earth is the abdomen of everyone, and when a person partakes of this breath the techniques of aiki are born, with and by means of the Positive and Negative Principles. That is to say, the kotodama is born and aiki techniques are born. (2)

Donald Deed quotes Michio Hikitsuchi as saying: The Kojiki started from the birth of the universe. By studying this you will understand the true meaning of aikido. There were two gods Izanagi and Izanami, a couple from whom several other gods were born. Both of them mean the breath in and out (akatama and shirotama). (3)

and Everything comes like yin and yang. Izanagi is yang and heaven. Izanami is yin and heaven. (3)

Contradictory forces of Izanagi and Izanami. One is yin while the other is yang. And everything should be like yin/yang. Ueshiba is also quoted with the following: If you wish to apply Ki-no-Miyoyo from the foundation of this nen, be aware that the left side of the body will be the basis for Bu, while the right side will offer an opening for connection with the ki of the universe. When the links between left and right are complete, then one's movements become totally free. (4)

Some of Ueshiba's writings that incorporate contradictory forces (5):

Bujutsu: The form and the spirit of the gods
The parent of Izu and Mizu
So precious!

Put the active principle (yo) into the right hand
Turn the left into the passive (in)
And so guide the adversary.

Whenever I seem to confront
Another dead end on my path
That precious way of Izu and Mizu
I bring to mind once more

Assume gedan and see
The spirit of the positive (yo) as
in shadow (in)
Recognize the cuts and thrusts of
the enemy's blade
As merely seigan


The Pine, the Bamboo, and the Plum
The make up of Ki that we are training to purify
From where do they arise?
The Water and Fire of the change in the self.

Takemusu comes to be
Through Aiki with fire and
Water of the Holy Parent
The workings of this union are
The superlative beauty of the works of God.

Let us bind together
Heaven and Earth, God and Man
So we may guard and protect
This age of ours.

Stand on the bridge that was built
Through the Aiki of fire and the water
In the great expanse of the void
There is the Mountain Echo.

Ah, the precious Izu and Mizu
Together, the Cross of Aiki
Advance with courage
In the voice of Mizu

Jigoro Kano visited Morihei Ueshiba to watch a demonstration of aikido. Kano was so impressed that he remarked that what he saw was what he considered an ideal budo. Let's take a step back and see what Kano viewed as an ideal budo:

Kano’s concept of Ju no Ri, was based upon the Taoist precept, “reversing is the movement of the Tao,” also described by the statement “the most yielding things in the world overcome the most unyielding.” Kano combined Ju no Ri with the interplay of forces as defined by the precept of in-yo (yin and yang, hardness and softness, negative and positive, receptiveness and resistance), and used the following to explain his concept of Kuzushi founded on Ju no Ri. (6)

Even Kano knew the great importance of the concept of in-yo. He saw his ideal made physical in that aikido demonstration and he voiced it. When we turn to Modern Aikido, we find that most of the concept of in/yo, yin/yang, contradictory forces has all but disappeared. This was one aspect of Ueshiba's aiki that had not been fully transmitted to students.

The forces, by definition of in/yo, must be going in opposite directions at the same time. If we look to Tohei's unbendable arm example, we find it explained commonly by using a fire hose analogy. When attempting the unbendable arm, one imagines that one's arm is the hose and there is water rushing outward from the body through the arm and out the hand. However, this is just one half of the concept of in/yo. While the water is rushing outward through the arm, one must also have water rushing inward at the same time. This concept of contradictory forces is used throughout the entire body, not just in one area.

Now let's shift the focus to take a look at the body training. Rinjiro Shirata has stated: Ueshiba Sensei's way of explaining techniques was first of all to give the names of kamisama (deities). After that, he explained the movement. He told us, "Aikido originally didn't have any form. The movements of the body in response to one's state of mind became the techniques. (7)

Morihei Ueshiba says that the movement of the body (which is directed by the mind) is what creates techniques. Rinjiro Shirata also notes: He said that the ken and body are the same and the same was the case for the jo. We were taught that the mind is the source and the movement of the body is expressed through the hands which becomes the jo. Thus, the jo is an extension of the mind. (7)

Again, we find talk about the mind leads the body and the movement of the body. It isn't the techniques which are the source, but the mind while the aiki body creates techniques spontaneously. In an interview with Masando Sasaki, we read:

I remember he got angry at me when I asked him, "Sensei, how should I explain when people ask me what aikido is?" (laughter) Hardly anyone had even heard of aikido back then, so I always had a hard time explaining it. I figured Ueshiba Sensei would be able to explain it since he was the one who created it. But when I asked him, he stamped the ground and exclaimed, "Aiki? I am aiki!" (8)

Note that Morihei Ueshiba didn't say that the myriad of techniques are the way of aiki, but Ueshiba himself is aiki. Aiki is a training method to change one's body. Through the exercises and training for aiki, one's body is rewired and rebuilt to work in a more martial manner.

Yukiyoshi Sagawa, Kodo Horikawa, and Morihei Ueshiba shared similar abilities and skills. We can look to them to find instances of how they viewed aiki and training in regards to how it changed the body. We find that aiki and techniques are totally different in Transparent Power by Tatsuo Kimura: The elder Sagawa, who sometimes had a fiery temper, would take what he learned from Takeda and try it out on strong and mean-looking construction workers he came across. He quickly realized that if you lacked the sort of aiki that Sokaku Takeda possessed, none of the techniques would work against a persistent opponent. So Sagawa's father said to Takeda, "I'm already so old, I think it would be better if you'd teach me Aiki instead of techniques."

Also in Transparent Power, Sagawa states boldly that aiki is a body training method. Aiki is not technique based training. Aiki is not about training timing and body placement. Aiki is about training the body to function differently. Even Mrs. Horikawa knew that aiki changed the body.

Stan Pranin talking about training and states, It's the idea of "stealing techniques with your eyes," isn't it?
Mrs. Horikawa replies, It's not with the eyes, it's with the body. (9)

When we turn to look at Modern Aikido, we find that most of the focus is on learning techniques and not changing the body. Aiki as a body changing method has all but disappeared. This was another aspect of Ueshiba's aiki that had not been fully transmitted to students. During the post-war period, Ueshiba was not teaching regularly, not physically present at the dojo often, and when actually teaching he spent most of the time talking about spiritual ideology that no one could understand, it is plain to see that his students focused on techniques in their attempt to mimic Ueshiba.

1. Aikido Today Magazine; #31 Dec.93/ Jan. 94

2. Aiki News Issue 091

3. Black Belt 1976 Vol 14 No 3

4. A Life in Aikido: The Biography of Founder Morihei Ueshiba

5. Aiki News Issue 046

6. http://www.aikidojournal.com/?id=2138

7. Aiki News Issue 062

8. Aikido Journal Issue 116

9. Daito-ryu Aikijujutsu. Stan Pranin
WVMark
Huajing
 
Posts: 458
Joined: Sun Jul 06, 2008 7:02 am

Re: modern aikido

Postby slowEdie on Wed Apr 08, 2015 5:39 am

Thanks for that glimpse of aiki...
Could you please expand on "Takemusu"
Some of Ueshiba's writings that incorporate contradictory forces (5):

Bujutsu: The form and the spirit of the gods
The parent of Izu and Mizu
So precious!

Put the active principle (yo) into the right hand
Turn the left into the passive (in)
And so guide the adversary.

Whenever I seem to confront
Another dead end on my path
That precious way of Izu and Mizu
I bring to mind once more

Assume gedan and see
The spirit of the positive (yo) as
in shadow (in)
Recognize the cuts and thrusts of
the enemy's blade
As merely seigan


The Pine, the Bamboo, and the Plum
The make up of Ki that we are training to purify
From where do they arise?
The Water and Fire of the change in the self.

Takemusu comes to be
Through Aiki with fire and
Water of the Holy Parent
The workings of this union are
The superlative beauty of the works of God.

Let us bind together
Heaven and Earth, God and Man
So we may guard and protect
This age of ours.

Stand on the bridge that was built
Through the Aiki of fire and the water
In the great expanse of the void
There is the Mountain Echo.

Ah, the precious Izu and Mizu
Together, the Cross of Aiki
Advance with courage
In the voice of Mizu
User avatar
slowEdie
Anjing
 
Posts: 115
Joined: Mon Sep 08, 2014 8:44 pm

Re: modern aikido

Postby allen2saint on Wed Apr 08, 2015 6:42 am

Got to thank you all for this discussion. After reading all this and I went back home upstate and found my old suburito, which I had stored years before at my parents house. Using it every day now and starting to really think about what sidelined my Aikido on the first place. It's the art that makes me happiest and with all this great master class level talk, I've been inspired to discover more and develop myself as an Aikidoist once again. Thanks.
Last edited by allen2saint on Wed Apr 08, 2015 7:15 am, edited 1 time in total.
allen2saint
Wuji
 
Posts: 1038
Joined: Wed Jan 19, 2011 9:43 pm

Re: modern aikido

Postby WVMark on Wed Apr 08, 2015 3:17 pm

slowEdie wrote:Thanks for that glimpse of aiki...
Could you please expand on "Takemusu"


Chris Li has an excellent article here:

http://www.aikidosangenkai.org/blog/aik ... e-harmony/

And then follow up with this:

http://www.aikidosangenkai.org/blog/aik ... ge-heaven/
WVMark
Huajing
 
Posts: 458
Joined: Sun Jul 06, 2008 7:02 am

Re: modern aikido

Postby WVMark on Fri Apr 10, 2015 7:07 pm

The Teaching Style of Morihei Ueshiba

Whether during the famous pre-war era or during the post-war era, Morihei Ueshiba described his aikido by using a specific coded spiritual ideology. He used terms like kami, love, the universe, specific Japanese deities, and an assortment of older Japanese terms or phrases. (These terms and phrases were code for internal training methodologies. See Chris Li's website.)

We know from previous research/post that Ueshiba was not regularly teaching during the Kobukan dojo years or the Tokyo hombu dojo years. We know that Ueshiba's primary class was a morning one, while other classes were taught by senior students. We know that the actual hands-on training times with Ueshiba were not extensive. When he actually was actively teaching, just how did he present his aikido material to his students?

We begin by taking a look at the structure of the class. When viewing video of Ueshiba, we see that he uses an uke to demonstrate a technique and then the students practice together. For the most part, a student uke is just used to show the technique rather than Ueshiba giving detailed instruction. However, we must also understand that the videos were set up, prearranged, and Ueshiba was showing what he wanted shown, not what happens when the cameras were gone. So we turn to look at what students have said in interviews and articles.

Kisshomaru states: "During his later years, rather than teach, my father demonstrated movements which were in accord with the flow of the universe and unified with nature. Thus, it was a matter of students watching his movements, learning by themselves, in that way understanding his technique. He wasn't deeply concerned about teaching students … " (1)

This supports the position that Ueshiba mostly demonstrated rather than taught during his teaching times in the post-war period. Saito also states something similar in regards to pre-war.

In the pre-war period he taught without explanation. Students couldn't ask questions. (2)

Then there is an interview with Kanai who stated that Ueshiba would just throw his uke and rarely explain anything. (3) Nobuyoshi Tamura remembered Ueshiba throwing students but not explaining. (4)

Even if we look to some of the pre-war students, we find similar stories. Takako Kunigoshi and Zenzaburo Akazawa relate their memories of training and that Ueshiba would show a technique but not explain it. (5)

Rinjiro Shirata, another pre-war student, gives some more details about Ueshiba's teaching style: "We never practiced techniques in any specific order. It was not a practice where we were taught. As I told you before, Ueshiba had his own training. Therefore, he practiced techniques as he wanted. That was his training. Ueshiba Sensei's way of explaining techniques was first of all to give the names of kamisama (deities). After that, he explained the movement. He told us, "Aikido originally didn't have any form. The movements of the body in response to one's state of mind became the techniques." (6)

and

"… in our time, Ueshiba Sensei didn't teach systematically. While we learned we had to systemize each technique in our mind so it was very hard. Ueshiba Sensei didn't have techniques. He said: "There are no techniques. What you express each time is a technique." "(7)

However, Hisao Kimata notes that sometimes Ueshiba did explain while at other times, it was up to the student to figure things out. (8) Yoshio Sugino remembers Ueshiba quickly showing a technique once and then having the students practice without detailed explanations. (9)

It is also interesting to see what Shioda thought about Ueshiba's teaching methods: "Our way of training was, for example, to hold Ueshiba Sensei's hands or shoulders or seize him from behind and he would free himself from our grip. He would merely say to us, "Master it and forget it". " (10)

and

"I know that Ueshiba Sensei's techniques were wonderful, but what he did one day was completely different from the day before. Since Ueshiba Sensei did whatever came into his mind, those who were training watched what he was doing without understanding. There were nothing at all like the basics we do today. He would do whatever came to his mind." (11)

and

"As mentioned earlier, at the Ueshiba Dojo in the old days we didn't explicitly have any pre-set forms. The only thing the students could do was copy the techniques that Sensei performed on their own. In terms of instruction, the only thing we were told was to "become one with heaven and earth." "(12)

Minoru Mochizuki relates that Ueshiba wasn't concerned with teaching and was using his students merely as training partners. (13) Stan Pranin writes about the pre-war era, "Morihei's teaching style was long on action and short on words. He would execute techniques in rapid succession with almost no explanation." (14)

It didn't matter if it was the pre-war era or the post-war era, Morihei Ueshiba wasn't overly concerned about explaining or teaching in detail. Students were left to figure everything out on their own from watching and catching whatever small bits of explanation made it their way. Between Ueshiba being gone quite a lot, only teaching I the morning when he was there, his lack of details, and his focus on not repeating techniques, it is no wonder why most students found it impossible to learn aiki. Yet, some of the pre-war students did gain internal skills and became known as the "giants of aikido". How did those few pre-war students surpass the post-war students?

One of the main differences between the pre-war era and the post-war era was the martial system that was being taught. In the pre-war era, Ueshiba was still working to get much better at aiki by using the training methodology of Daito ryu aikijujutsu. In the post-war era, Ueshiba was beyond that and working to perfect other aspects of aiki that were far beyond those students. As noted by Mochizuki, the pre-war students often practiced sumo. (15) It is rare to see any post-war student mention practicing sumo.

Hisao Kamada states that "There were techniques like yonkajo, but these were ways of training the body, while I believe that using them as applied techniques (oyowaza) is a matter of the spirit. The basics went about as far as gokajo, and after that it was applied techniques." (16) It is rare to see any of the post-war students mention joint locks as ways of training the body. Instead, they are techniques to be trained.

The Kobukan dojo contained many different practice weapons while the Tokyo hombu dojo focused on techniques. The training regimen was very different in the pre-war times.

We have one more area to cover and that is Ueshiba's words of explanation as he taught. If we look to an article in Black Belt magazine about training in post-war, we find:

The first class is usually taken up mostly with discussions about God and nature - Uyeshiba doing the talking and the uchideshi listening. It is in this hour that the young uchideshi is exposed to Zen philosophy and the deeper meanings of aikido - its nonviolent and defensive perfection and understanding.
If this all sounds rather remote and difficult to grasp for a Western reader, he may be interested to know that the young Japanese uchideshi often feels the same way. The 83-year-old Uyeshiba many times speaks about highly abstract topics, lapsing usually into ancient Japanese phraseology, so that his listeners often find it difficult to follow him. (17)

Robert Frager also talks about his training and Ueshiba's incomprehensible speeches: "I understood very little of his talks. Osensei used a great many esoteric Shinto terms, and he spoke with a strong regional accent. His teachings were pitched at a philosophical, mystical level, far above my beginner's concerns about where I had to place my hands and feet. I puzzled over statements like, "When you practice Aikido, you stand on the floating bridge between heaven and earth," and "Put the Shinto Goddess 'She-who-invites' in your left foot and the God
'He-who-approaches' in your right foot." "(18)

Walther Krenner notes that Ueshiba would sometimes come in and talk for a long time. (19) Kisshomaru Ueshiba also talks about his father's baffling spiritual experiences. (20) Yoji Tomosue also found it difficult to understand Ueshiba. (21) Tamura relates that the young students didn't understand what Ueshiba was saying. (22) There is an interesting interview with Henry Kono in an Aikido Today magazine.

ATM: When you had conversations like these with O'sensei, what would you talk about?
HK: Well, I would usually ask him why the rest of us couldn't do what he could. There were many other teachers, all doing aikido. But he was doing it differently - doing something differently. His movement was so clean!

ATM: How would O'sensei answer your questions about what he was doing?
HK: He would say that I didn't understand yin and yang [in and yo]. So, now I've made it my life work to study yin and yang. That's what O'sensei told me to do. (23)

Looking back to the pre-war era, one would think that Ueshiba would have been much easier to understand. However we have to remember that Ueshiba had about ten years before the Kobukan dojo opened to refine his spiritual ideology. Takako Kunigoshi states that there wasn't anyone who could understand Ueshiba. (24) Shirata remembers Ueshiba giving the names of kamisama as explanations. (25) Mochizuki considered Ueshiba a "primitive genius who couldn't explain anything." (26) In fact, Mochizuki goes on to say that Ueshiba wouldn't explain but would rather say it came from God. (27) (28)

Pre-war or post-war, Ueshiba never utilized a logical training regimen to present to his students. He worked on whatever came to mind. Techniques were rarely repeated. Students sometimes worked with each other on one technique for hours. Ueshiba's teaching methodology comprised of throwing a student as a demonstration of what to work on and then let the students practice together. (NOTE that Aiki is such a detailed and involved process that no one could ever learn how to train it by just being an uke. Aiki training must be specifically shown and worked.)

No matter if we look at the pre-war period or the post-war one, we find that Ueshiba's coded spiritual talks were not understood by his students. This is important because both sets of students complained of the same thing! How then, did the pre-war students become giants?

In conclusion, neither the pre-war nor the post-war students understood Ueshiba's spiritual talks when he taught. So, all things being equal here, then there MUST, let me repeat that, MUST have been another training methodology that Ueshiba used that allowed Shioda, Tomiki, Shirata, Mochizuki, etc to become giants in aikido.

When we research further, we find that in post war Tokyo, Kisshomaru banned some training material that Shirata wanted to introduce to help students learn aiki. The pre-war students showed up at the post-war Tokyo dojo run by Kisshomaru and all of them left saying it wasn't aikido. When Ueshiba would show up at the Tokyo hombu dojo to teach, what did he have them do? He had them push on each other. Yet, Kisshomaru's version of aikido does not include this training methodology. In a dojo outside of Tokyo, Ueshiba taught students there how to use intent to create yin/yang out the arms. He did so in a clear manner.

If you add up everything, Modern Aikido is NOT doing the same thing as Ueshiba's aikido. Modern Aikido is Kisshomaru's vision (NOT saying good, bad, right or wrong here. Just that they are different). Training Ueshiba's aikido is very different than Modern Aikido. The goals are very different. While Modern Aikido has a lot going for it, but if you want to have the skills and abilities of Morihei Ueshiba, then training Modern Aikido won't get you there. There is a very specific training methodology that CAN be taught. This training methodology was purposefully removed from Modern Aikido (replaced by other spiritual goals for a worldwide audience) as can be seen in previously posted research along with this one.

1. Aiki News Issue 031

2. Aiki News Issue 033

3. Aiki News Issue 038

4. Aiki News Issue 066

5. Aiki News Issue 047

6. Aiki News Issue 062

7. Aiki News Issue 063

8. Aiki News Issue 049

9. Aiki News Issue 069

10. Aiki News Issue 80

11. Aiki News Issue 93

12. Aikido Shugyo by Gozo Shioda

13. Black Belt 1989 Vol 27 No 8

14. http://www.aikidojournal.com/article.php?articleID=193

15. Black Belt 1989 Vol 27 No 8

16. http://www.aikidojournal.com/article.php?articleID=193

17. Black Belt 1966 Vol 4 No 5

18. Yoga Journal March 1982

19. Training with the Master by John Stevens

20. Aiki News Issue 031

21. Aiki News Issue 031

22. Aiki News Issue 066

23. Aikido Today Magazine; #31 Dec.93/ Jan. 94.

24. Aiki News 047

25. Aiki News Issue 062

26. Black Belt 1980 Vol 18 No 4

27. Black Belt 1980 Vol 18 No 4

28. Black Belt 1989 Vol 27 No 8
WVMark
Huajing
 
Posts: 458
Joined: Sun Jul 06, 2008 7:02 am

Re: modern aikido

Postby Frank Bellemare on Sat Apr 11, 2015 8:16 am

I've never trained aikido, but I find this thread exquisite. Thank you Dan and Mark for this masterclass, as Allen said, and for your efforts over the years to bring this information to the general public. We are much obliged.
Frank Bellemare
Anjing
 
Posts: 103
Joined: Wed May 14, 2008 6:04 am
Location: Quebec City, Quebec

Re: modern aikido

Postby allen2saint on Sat Apr 11, 2015 9:16 am

Pre-war or post-war, Ueshiba never utilized a logical training regimen to present to his students.

Herein lies the problem with so many arts. Systemitizing it means you give up the goods for all to see. But systemitizing it means it will survive and thrive.
allen2saint
Wuji
 
Posts: 1038
Joined: Wed Jan 19, 2011 9:43 pm

PreviousNext

Return to Video Links

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 16 guests