modern aikido

[wayne hansen]

My friend bob caputo had the highest respect for tohei after having lived in his house
Bob also lived with yamaguchi the cat he held them in similar regard

[Bodywork]

nobody said Tohei was a push over. The guys I train with had a teacher for many years who was graded by Tohei from the 50's onward.

Being graded by Tohei was as meaningless as being graded by anyone else.

In the vids of Ueshiba one would expect to see some startling stuff.. but we don't.. why..?

There are plenty of vids of Ueshiba doing some interesting push stuff.
The history of budo is of people doing incredible things not caught on film. I really don't give a shit about people today saying if it isn't on film it didn't happen. May they all get the training they deserve.

[emptycloud]

nobody said Tohei was a push over. The guys I train with had a teacher for many years who was graded by Tohei from the 50's onward.

Being graded by Tohei was as meaningless as being graded by anyone else.

In the vids of Ueshiba one would expect to see some startling stuff.. but we don't.. why..?

There are plenty of vids of Ueshiba doing some interesting push stuff.
The history of budo is of people doing incredible things not caught on film. I really don't give a shit about people today saying if it isn't on film it didn't happen. May they all get the training they deserve.

Yup grading is what it is. Nobody has been graded at our place for over 25yrs. I still got a white belt to keep my pyjamas up 20yrs later.

However for a working class labourer and who lost bits of his body at Dunkirk, to travel to Japan from Scotland in 1960's was meaningful for him.
That he showed such determination to find something in Aikido and to bring it back this far north, and never charged a penny for his discoveries means something to us.

Yup Film is what its is. However I have yet to see Ueshiba do stuff on film which isn't what many would call modern aikido, in that we usually see ukes throwing them selves around in a highly cooperative manner. Often if you look closely at Ueshiba he even signals which attack the uke must perform.

I recall reading some where that if you did not pick up on Ushiba's signals or cooperate you were out.

thus begins my internet retreat....

ciao

Rich

[Bodywork]

Yup Film is what its is. However I have yet to see Ueshiba do stuff on film which isn't what many would call modern aikido,
Rich

Really? Show me ..uhm...lets just call it 100,000 for a number (thats about 5%) of people actively pushing, like you see them doing to him...on many films.
No, How about 10,000
How about a 1,000?
You cant and you never will.

Interestingly, that is precisely what he would do after stopping class and shouting "This is not my Aiki...do!!"
They don't even know why he does it
How to do it
And what it is for
And Tohei's people for the most part...suck at it as well.
Here's a quote for ya from one of Toheis first students (a tough as hell FMA, Judo and kung fu guy) and also took Ukemi for Ueshiba; Meyer Goo. After he felt me move in his dojo. "I never thought I would feel Osensei's power again in my life time. What you are doing is very important. Don't stop. No matter what they say."
The point? I am doing what Ueshiba told people he was doing.
It wasn't his,
It isn't mine.

For those who don't know this stuff:
If not, why not?
If you don't feel unusually powerful compared to normal people after a few years? Then either you, or your teacher don't know what the hell you're doing and one or both should quit aiki...do today and do something else. Leave aiki...do for those doing aiki...do
When asked, one well known shihan said:
"2,000,000 people are doing aikido? Says who? Subtract four zeros!! Wait. That's till too many doing it...right!!"

[slowEdie]

emptycloud wrote

Training in aikido for me is contextual. Not able to travel far and wide to expose myself (cough) to many teachers I have reduced practice to what I feel is essential.

Which is a study of posture and mental calmness. The context of this study is through the uke-nage relationship. Its that simple.

In class we study posture via many inputs from Alexander, Feldenkrais, learning at tai chi form, chi gung forms, yoga asanas, weapons work, and of course aikido practice.

Our class is free from any grades or organisations, we do not have a sensei, although one of my training partners has been studying martial arts for nearly 50yrs.

We make up the class as we go along every night. Using posture and mental calmness as our goal then all attacks and exercises are simply a language we use to work on maintaing these goals. The longer you have been practicing the more pressure you get put under to maintain functional posture and mental calmness.

When I say I don't care, it can be understood on several levels.

I see my practice as an open system, I enjoy been informed from many of the vids and opinions here on RSF, but as mentioned they are all grist to the mill when back on the mat.

I do not see my practice as a big beef stew of randomness, more a laboratory of posture under pressure. Its a slow and unglamorous practice and offers people very little in the way satisfaction.

In terms of real life practical applications, its hard to say what the effects are, would I be calmer and less fearful in the world without all the years of practice..?

I defended myself spontaneously and successfully against two unprovoked physical attacks, would I have done this without years of training, who knows.

If what I am training in is not aikido, its irrelevant to me.

The thing I do is Aikido as manifest this far north of Japan in 2015. Its is engrossing and hardwork and the guys I work with are hellishly funny, and its practically free....$ - 0...

whats not to like...

Who cares anyway................?

Rich

Sounds like a great dojo, I really like that sort of attitude, if you were within 10 km's, I would attend....keep exploring

[GrahamB]

Who would win in a fight - Dan Harden vs Ueshiba?

[wiesiek]

..."If you don't feel unusually powerful compared to normal people after a few years?..."

I trained recently
with the Chen class, and they looks really gassed out after training/including teacher/, when I just warmed up...
so, Dan
my internal is better or i`m simply better fit, due to longer mileage and better background?

[wiesiek]

ps
I don't feel unusually powerful , really
but
unusually more "elastic", compare to even younger dudes...

[snafu]

Who would win in a fight - Dan Harden vs Ueshiba?

Better question: what kind of person would ask that question?

At this point, it's not much of a fair fight, since Morihei Ueshiba is a corpse. Even I think I could beat him up since he can't much fight back. Now, the tricky part, is digging up his grave without getting arrested (do the Japanese police use guns? that might be a problem too...)? Then again, some reassembly might be required if the worms have been extra busy.

[WVMark]

Who would win in a fight - Dan Harden vs Ueshiba?

Better question: what kind of person would ask that question?

Hi Tom,
Kano (the founder of judo) met Ueshiba (the founder of aikido). Kano watched a demonstration by Ueshiba. When done, Kano remarked (paraphrasing), That is my vision of what ideal budo is. Kano then sent two of his students to train with Ueshiba. Two well known, famous people meeting. Perfect gentlemen. Reminds me of when Dan talked about his meeting with Liu Chengde. Perfect gentlemen. Your question hits the nail on the head.

Mark

[DeusTrismegistus]

Is this the direction Aikido should be taking ?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z3aY4wbAOHw

So I tried out the first exercise my brother and another person this morning. I had some success immediately and after 10-15 times it was working no matter how much pressure they applied. Pretty cool stuff and both of them were rather mystified about how it worked.

Dan, is this the sort of power you mean when discussing aiki or IP? I know the gent in this video mentions you. Is he someone you have trained?

I would be interested in learning more about this stuff.

[GrahamB]

Who would win in a fight - Dan Harden vs Ueshiba?

Better question: what kind of person would ask that question?

Hi Tom,
Kano (the founder of judo) met Ueshiba (the founder of aikido). Kano watched a demonstration by Ueshiba. When done, Kano remarked (paraphrasing), That is my vision of what ideal budo is. Kano then sent two of his students to train with Ueshiba. Two well known, famous people meeting. Perfect gentlemen. Reminds me of when Dan talked about his meeting with Liu Chengde. Perfect gentlemen. Your question hits the nail on the head.

Mark

Jesus, lighten up guys, I didn't mean to offend your liege. I'm clearly a terrible person, and humour has no place on rum soaked fist anymore.

Don't worry, I won't bother you two again,

[slowEdie]

Deus wrote

So I tried out the first exercise my brother and another person this morning. I had some success immediately and after 10-15 times it was working no matter how much pressure they applied. Pretty cool stuff and both of them were rather mystified about how it worked.

Yeah it's good stuff, there's a few more available

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r3OszmJ13_o

[WVMark]

Better question: what kind of person would ask that question?

Hi Tom,
Kano (the founder of judo) met Ueshiba (the founder of aikido). Kano watched a demonstration by Ueshiba. When done, Kano remarked (paraphrasing), That is my vision of what ideal budo is. Kano then sent two of his students to train with Ueshiba. Two well known, famous people meeting. Perfect gentlemen. Reminds me of when Dan talked about his meeting with Liu Chengde. Perfect gentlemen. Your question hits the nail on the head.

Mark

Jesus, lighten up guys, I didn't mean to offend your liege. I'm clearly a terrible person, and humour has no place on rum soaked fist anymore.

Don't worry, I won't bother you two again,

You can dish it out and expect everyone to just roll with it but when it's directed at you, suddenly the world ends? Awww, c'mon. You can pick on anyone but no one can pick on you? I'll lighten up if you will. At least let me buy you a beer when/if we meet. Put a smiling face to the blps on the screen and maybe share a joke or two. Until then, if I've hit a sore spot, I apologize.

[DeusTrismegistus]

Thanks Mark and slowEddie for the vids and the historical info. I have never practiced aikido but this thread has a lot of good information.