4th Dan Aikido challenges Turkish Wrestler champion

[GrahamB]

I think we all know how this one is going to go down before we click....

http://theawesomester.com/wrestler-vs-aikidoka/

[emptycloud]

I think we all know how this one is going to go down before we click....

http://theawesomester.com/wrestler-vs-aikidoka/

Yup, aikido minus the use of strikes, whats that you say aikido is 99% atemi strikes...

[GrahamB]

Yeah it would totally have gone down differently if he could have used the overhead knife hand... :-p


If only... IF ONLY!

[Ian]

Yup, aikido minus the use of strikes, whats that you say aikido is 99% atemi strikes...

Evidence, please!

[Andy_S]

Surprise, surprise at the result....

Note that the Turkish guy goes straight for the body, while the Aikido chap is trying to get a wrist hold. All things being equal, the body wrestler will always have a better chance than someone going for a wristlock as the body is so much easier to get to, rather than a hand, which can wave around in all directions. (That having been said, the Turk finishes with a nice armbar - but on the deck).

I too would be interested in seeing ANY aikido that is "99 percent atemi:" Even if Uyeshiba said it, he did not demonstrate it, and apparently did not teach as, as AFAIK, none of his students seem to have this technique prioritization - if anything, it is the other way round (99 percent vast circular movements, wrist locks, flips, falls - and one percent judo chop).

I wonder if this oft-quoted quote was really just a "one-hand-clapping" kind of Zen riddle that the little old man came up with to confuse the various oafs and oiks who infest the martial arts...?

[Kettlebells4U]

IMHO what Ueshiba meant was that 99% of the effectiveness of Aikido technique relies/ are based on Atemi. Not the sheer number of techniques in Aikido's repertoire.
Just my 5 Cent...

[Tiga Pukul]

I find it rather dubious that the aikido guy is noted as a 'champion fighter'. Champion fighter in Aikido? I didn't even know there were matches in this art... If he would be a fighter he would know a bit about distance. Stretching out your hand like that (what he does as initial move) works fine in a demonstration, but with this, he already set himself up to lose. The wrestler didn't even impress me, it was mostly the aikido guy that was totally clueless.

[allen2saint]

Tomiki Aikido is an offshoot that has competitions. So, maybe that could be it. All the best Aikido people I know wouldn't bother with something like this because they know what the art's for and what it's not for.

[emptycloud]

Yup, aikido minus the use of strikes, whats that you say aikido is 99% atemi strikes...

Evidence, please!

http://youtu.be/EfJm2Ff04b4

http://youtu.be/f-V4dXZMwwE

There are myriad ways of doing aikido. As a fighting art its not a defensive art but an offensive striking art.

Nishio sensei comes to mind if you want to see some atemi striking skill. Nadaeu makes the point casually as always.

It all depends in what you want from the art, and how you wish to study it to suit your perceived needs.

Rich

[emptycloud]

Yeah it would totally have gone down differently if he could have used the overhead knife hand... :-p


If only... IF ONLY!

don't be a silly sausage

[Ian]

What I meant was, where's the evidence that:

-aikido is 99% strikes, or
-adding strikes to the kind of freestyle situation in the OP video... would've made a damn bit of difference.

Other styles don't have this problem.

[Graculus]

Not as an apologist for aikido, but as regards the 99%, the book Angry White Pyjamas (not a favorite of the aikido crowd, as it 'gasp' isn't always very respectful of either the art or it's major figures, but is a good read, and quite accurate in its depiction of ex- pat life in Japan) has some interesting info.

He is speaking of Shioda Gozo, founder of Yoshinkan aikido and one of Ueshiba's senior students:

'Shioda senior, who learnt his street fighting in the vice neighbourhoods of pre-war Shinjuku, had pronounced that 70% of an actual fight was atemi.'

'Kancho's most notable street brawl, and the origin of his precise '70% of a street fight is atemi '..... actually happened about three blocks from Rolling Stone.... Out of the corner of his eye he saw one man taller than the rest, tough looking and taking an amused interest in the proceedings. Giving no warning, Shioda marched up to him and gave him an almighty punch to the solar plexus.'

Graculus
http://www.ichijoji.blogspot.com

[Itten]

I tried to resist..... What a sad statement . After 23 years of aikido and almost 40 years total in MA I feel I can safely say the aikido guy had probably never ever been in a fight. Sticking your hand out like that is an invitation to broken fingers. I think he showed a very nice, humble, losers character. then again I think the Turkish gent was very kind and friendly. With respect to both of the videos from Empty Cloud, Nishio's aikido was better than some, my teacher was a big fan, but you can't really see any fighting skill from the uke/tori setup. he is just demonstrating. Nadeau is doing the same, it's good that he chose a girl for his demos, they were mostly meaningless out of context. I sometimes teach stuff like this with the caveat that without a genuine grasp of scaling force you will come unstuck.
I have never seen aikido work in competition setting, point. You cannot compare what Tomiki does to freestyle judo. On the other hand i've played with judo guys who still start off trying to get a grip, as long as tou don't hit them in the throat, eyes or nuts, once they've really got you down you go. The same goes for most wrestlers.
I'm not saying aikido can't work, I've taught bouncers and security guys who are very happy with aspects of our stuff, but it doesn't work in this setup.
Anyway what's the point. Using aikido without a genuine study in strategy, terrain, weapons, etc., is a joke. A lot of people enjoy it so fine, unless they imagine they are studying self defence, in which case stay off the streets. Mind you the same can be said for a lot of CMA, especially the "internal" arts ;-)

[emptycloud]

What I meant was, where's the evidence that:

-aikido is 99% strikes, or
-adding strikes to the kind of freestyle situation in the OP video... would've made a damn bit of difference.

Other styles don't have this problem.

Entering into competitive arenas of sport or freestyle combat isn't really part of the culture of Aikido. This may change, there are some aikido schools who actively cross train in mma. (Will post some vids of their stuff, I am off to class right now, will do it later )

In my classes we devout sometime each week to simple, no nonsense self protection training where we essentially concentrate on fast strikes to soft targets.

[emptycloud]

I tried to resist..... What a sad statement . After 23 years of aikido and almost 40 years total in MA I feel I can safely say the aikido guy had probably never ever been in a fight. Sticking your hand out like that is an invitation to broken fingers. I think he showed a very nice, humble, losers character. then again I think the Turkish gent was very kind and friendly. With respect to both of the videos from Empty Cloud, Nishio's aikido was better than some, my teacher was a big fan, but you can't really see any fighting skill from the uke/tori setup. he is just demonstrating. Nadeau is doing the same, it's good that he chose a girl for his demos, they were mostly meaningless out of context. I sometimes teach stuff like this with the caveat that without a genuine grasp of scaling force you will come unstuck.
I have never seen aikido work in competition setting, point. You cannot compare what Tomiki does to freestyle judo. On the other hand i've played with judo guys who still start off trying to get a grip, as long as tou don't hit them in the throat, eyes or nuts, once they've really got you down you go. The same goes for most wrestlers.
I'm not saying aikido can't work, I've taught bouncers and security guys who are very happy with aspects of our stuff, but it doesn't work in this setup.
Anyway what's the point. Using aikido without a genuine study in strategy, terrain, weapons, etc., is a joke. A lot of people enjoy it so fine, unless they imagine they are studying self defence, in which case stay off the streets. Mind you the same can be said for a lot of CMA, especially the "internal" arts ;-)

yup...agreed