tai chi in real fight, non-compliantly

[grzegorz]

I'm responding mostly to NB's criticism of KF guys who don't get in the ring. I respect NB's journey and abilities and I don't necessarily disagree with him, I just don't see a need to criticize those who aren't interested in fighting for trophies.

I just think he'd be better off showing what he does and can do instead of worrying about the form collectors, because as it is we have forums like Bullshido that already do that.

Not to mention I know people who do taiji because they are dealing with cancer, old age, repetitive stress injuries, car accidents or any number of things and I don't think their goals are any less valid.

I've done a fair amount of bjj/judo and boxing and I have no doubt that it's not for everyone.

[wayne hansen]

I know all types
Those that have tested in competition
On the street
And those who have never used their art unless set upon
If I had to fight my way out of a bad situation there are those I would pick from each catogry
People who say you must do this or that to be compitent are usually trying to cover up for the fact they feel vulnerable
People jump on the latest fad to feel safe
Just look at the number of people on the street in tap out gear who look like they are on the way to a heart attack
Do what you want but do it to the best of your ability
Life is short then you die
As to your other point do tai chi for whatever reason you want but without a degree of martial intent the health and spiritual aspects are a little hard to secure
I laugh each time I go past the free tai chi guy in the park
I have yet to see him do one thing that follows tai chi principles
But that is not what makes me laugh
It is the posters on his car
Tai chi lessons
Windsurfing lessons
Surfing lessons
Invalid parking sticker

[grzegorz]

Well I don't think that guy should be teaching either. Besides compared to teaching surfing, I can't imagine that there would be anything fun about thing TJQ.

[neijia_boxer]

I find the negative attitude as annoying as a hippy taiji new age attitude.

I keep thinking I am about to be sold something.

It's like...

"Hey, did you know most taiji people can't fight?"

Why thank you Captain Obvious! All this time I thought those old ladies in the park were all deadly assassins.

yes, i'm trying to work on my negative attitude. It just those marketing guys on youtube, I can't escape videos of jake Mace and "Master Wong" "tai chi combat" , Clear's tai chi combat... video suggestions. those guys.....ok i'm being negative again.

FWIW: i was that tree hugging hippy guy at one time. When I started Taijiquan, I was into Zen meditation and Yoga. I never imagined I could or would ever try fighting. In my own evolution and moving to different cities and training with different coaches, I found myself learning more of the martial for no-nonsense self defense and also competitive sport forms, weapons, push hands, and full contact. The teachers with competitive sport experience in fighting, were the only one who could train me for full contact fighting. The training was harder than the actual fighting.

Also here is a list of some great Chinese martial arts fight coaches:
http://fighters-journey.blogspot.com/20 ... at-or.html

[windwalker]

Its common to ask about whether taiji people can fight, just as its also common to ask whether those who fight
'compete" are in fact using taiji to compete/ fight with.
Pressed enough anyone can fight, the question becomes how, at what level, for what.

This question about what is taiji usage, has been around for a long time even within the yang family. To say one is using or showing taiji in use
seems like a pretty tall order one so far that has not really been met in the ring. Strangely almost everyone seems to know others that can use it
but just dont compete.

Even in China, with the recent Chen vs Thai match
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0U8fGNhfZ7I

many asked where was the "taiji"

Of course the thai boxer, looks like he is using pretty much what he trained in, can the same be said for the "chen taiji" stylist?
IMO the coaching staff is at fault not understanding whether or how to present their fighters as fighters who practice fighting and chen style or
as this is chen style fighter.

[grzegorz]

I hear you NB.

I realize the flip side is that there are people learning KF who think they can fight until they actually fight a fighter.

So it's all good. My journey has been similar to yours. In fact I started hitting the heavy bag regularly again when a forty year old neighbor practically threatened my dad, 75 and a Vietnam vet, because he parked in front of his house on a public street for a minute, unfortunately I wasn't there. Needless to say you always have to ready for war, next time something happens with this guy, I am.

[Wanderingdragon]

IMO there are two types of fighters that truly learn to use their art. Those who study and find their teachers were fake, i.e. They find they cannot fight after believing they that's what they were learning.
And those who bring fighting experience with them, and learn how the art accentuates what is already part of their being.
I have always said fighting is fun, it's even more fun when you know you will win, at that point you have nothing to prove but much to share.
Then there are the hucksters, whether they can or cannot fight does not matter, they are selling the art, and that is where the bullshit arrives, they will give you anything you pay for from quickie self defense that often is useless in real situations, to the ultimate woo woo of shear Qi power. I believe these are the guys Neija is railing against. A bit overzealous, maybe, but that's what happens when you feel the adrenaline of actually hitting someone in the face, it always goes away when you have to hurt someone for real. After that it's just a study and for higher understanding.

[Dmitri]

I have always said fighting is fun, it's even more fun when you know you will win, at that point you have nothing to prove but much to share.

Although at that point it's not "fighting" anymore. One of the key things about fighting IMHO is that you never know the outcome until it actually happens.

[Wanderingdragon]

Fair enough, and true enough, you never KNOW you're going to win, it is the fighters mentality, refuse to lose.

[windwalker]

They find they cannot fight after believing they that's what they were learning.

I take it that "fighting" means competing
In which case I would concur, to compete in ring events requires a very specific skill set
which in most cases whether one can "fight" or not as nothing to do with it, it wont prepare one
for the ring.

one only wins in the ring, people survive in the street.

[Wanderingdragon]

No, I mean they have found themselves slapped around on the streets and treated just like they have been doing what they have been doing chi breathing, and pushing and yielding with the amazing soft touch of Taiji they have learned. Ring competition is another story, but it's still fighting, that's where many learn to put the strength of their structure into what they have learned, as well remove their fear of getting hit. It's truly not a necessary step for anyone who had had fights before they came to the arts.