modern aikido

[Aqui]

Hey Dan, just found this CIMA stuff and it reminded me very much of the Aiki stuff

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10203560927813883&set=a.1164713888105.2025288.1535631209&type=1&fref=nf

[willywrong]

Hey Dan, just found this CIMA stuff and it reminded me very much of the Aiki stuff

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10203560927813883&set=a.1164713888105.2025288.1535631209&type=1&fref=nf

In what way? Is it just a sails pitch for an abstract like Dan's web page with no videos just some static photos. The Facebook link I just read talks and actually doesn't give any methodology on how to apply and obtain any of those things (abstract) spoken of.
At least when I talk of the 4 ounce principle of CMC I give you his methodology as well as the principal. I can only say that I'm tied of listening to this egotistical nonsense.

[Bodywork]

bodywork,

you could reduce our groups practice down to one word.. attention.

You mentioned Tohei. The chap who ran this irregular outfit before I arrived was graded by Tohei for a few decades. We still do the unbendable, unliftable, unmovable, unlovable, exercises from time to time.. weight underside, one point, all good fun etc...

but you could say its just about attention... not learning about or the how of attention, but removing the obstacles to natural abiding attention..whilst in our pyjamas... whilst been clobbered by ugly Glaswegians..

Rich

Rich
Mark, Chris, myself and others are trying to tie in a broader spectrum of what changed; pre and post-war, till today. I don't think continually discussing your single dojo's methods is conducive to such a broad topic as "Modern " aikido.

[emptycloud]

bodywork,

you could reduce our groups practice down to one word.. attention.

You mentioned Tohei. The chap who ran this irregular outfit before I arrived was graded by Tohei for a few decades. We still do the unbendable, unliftable, unmovable, unlovable, exercises from time to time.. weight underside, one point, all good fun etc...

but you could say its just about attention... not learning about or the how of attention, but removing the obstacles to natural abiding attention..whilst in our pyjamas... whilst been clobbered by ugly Glaswegians..

Rich

Rich
Mark, Chris, myself and others are trying to tie in a broader spectrum of what changed; pre and post-war, till today. I don't think continually discussing your single dojo's methods is conducive to such a broad topic as "Modern " aikido.

there is something that ties it all together. Something that has been driving the martial arts, and many other ways for thousands of years.
Here in Scotland we only need look to our very own David Hume, here in the city of enlightenment, Athens of the North..

One-eon nen.

Though I dislike to use the term. Hume stumbled upon it also. If we were to have pictures in our place of practice I guess it would be more appropriate to have his.

Once the the concept is grasped then the body work really begins, seeing through the secret games we play in practice.
Heidegger saw this to, that thinking and being could not be separated, that everything arises together, uke, nage, walls of the dojo, mats, roof, oxygen, light, cleaner outside in the hall, car horn in the distance and so on.

One-eon nen

This is what unites all practices. We can not avoid this. This is the heart of Ueshibas practice. (The heart of buddhism, Tantra, yoga, philosophy, probably physics, meditation, cutting practice, the fine arts, Beethoven, sporting greats, poetry, definitely physics, the list is as long as human activities)

form follows content...

looping the first nen impulse....the failure of this reveals the mind/body study and is the burden of life long practice.

One-eon nen...though I dislike to use the term...

Rich

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/23 ... c533d8.jpg

[WVMark]

there is something that ties it all together. Something that has been driving the martial arts, and many other ways for thousands of years.
Here in Scotland we only need look to our very own David Hume, here in the city of enlightenment, Athens of the North..

One-eon nen.

Though I dislike to use the term. Hume stumbled upon it also. If we were to have pictures in our place of practice I guess it would be more appropriate to have his.

Once the the concept is grasped then the body work really begins, seeing through the secret games we play in practice.
Heidegger saw this to, that thinking and being could not be separated, that everything arises together, uke, nage, walls of the dojo, mats, roof, oxygen, light, cleaner outside in the hall, car horn in the distance and so on.

One-eon nen

This is what unites all practices. We can not avoid this. This is the heart of Ueshibas practice. (The heart of buddhism, Tantra, yoga, philosophy, probably physics, meditation, cutting practice, the fine arts, Beethoven, sporting greats, poetry, definitely physics, the list is as long as human activities)

form follows content...

looping the first nen impulse....the failure of this reveals the mind/body study and is the burden of life long practice.

One-eon nen...though I dislike to use the term...

Rich

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/23 ... c533d8.jpg

I'm going to speak through your post and address your topic for other people. When it comes to Ueshiba and his aikido, you have yet to provide any single instance that you understand any of it. Let me repost below. You can Zen yourself into another world all you want, you can misogi yourself until you're completely drenched under the waterfall and it isn't going to get you any closer to Ueshiba's aikido. For Ueshiba, it was the other way around. His Daito ryu aiki (the body changing method) infused his spirituality. His aiki bolstered and informed his spirituality. Abe, 11 years of misogi, could not do what Ueshiba could, could not fathom how Ueshiba was doing it, and had no clue where to start ... after 11 years misogi ... until Ueshiba showed him what? Budo. Daito ryu aiki was all that Ueshiba knew.

Let's flip to Tohei. Studying judo. Getting tossed and failing. Goes home and starts kicking support beams until he's physically stronger. So much that he's rattling the house. Goes back to judo and starts tossing peers left and right. Meets Ueshiba and gets tossed like a rag doll. Tohei, after years of judo, could not do what Ueshiba could, could not fathom how Ueshiba was doing it, and had no clue where to start ... after years of judo ... until Ueshiba showed him what? Budo. Daito ryu aiki was all that Ueshiba knew.

Let's flip to XYZ person. You pick the name. Karate, kendo, sumo, boxing, etc. It's the same story.

Let's look at them individually ... this pre-war person from judo, after training with Ueshiba, was able to replicate his skills. This pre-war person from kendo, after training with Ueshiba, was able to replicate his skills. This pre-war person from pick the martial art, after training with Ueshiba was able to replicate his skills. The entire common denominator in both cases, spiritual and martial, is ... Daito ryu aiki.

Now look to Ueshiba's peers who also replicated what he could do and the smoking gun is pretty much narrowed down to one thing and one thing only: Daito ryu aiki. The body changing method. NOT Daito ryu. NOT Daito ryu techniques. But Daito ryu aiki.

You can spend your entire life studying Zen. Many people have all around the world and have never ever come anywhere close to reproducing Ueshiba's skills and abilities. Zen wasn't the answer. The research into Takeda, Ueshiba, etc prove it beyond a doubt.

Mark

What happens when we look at all the people who are studying misogi-no-gyo or Omoto kyo or Zen meditation? If we focus on those people, you still have no one who has achieved Ueshiba's abilities. How many people who focused on the spiritual only and practiced misogi exercises have replicated Ueshiba's abilities? We can turn to one of Ueshiba's students for an answer. Around 1952, Seiseki Abe says this about talking to Ueshiba, "How did you ever learn such a wonderful budo", and he answered, "Through misogi." Now I had been doing misogi since 1941 and when I heard that Aikido came from misogi, suddenly "snap", the two came together. (1)

Seiseki Abe had been doing misogi for at least 10 years prior to training in aikido and wasn't at all near Ueshiba's skills or abilities, nor did he even see misogi and aikido as being similar. However, under Ueshiba's tutelage, Seiseki Abe continued to grow as a martial artist. We can see from this that something that Ueshiba knew and had trained was the underlying basis for powering his misogi exercises. Other people who did not have that certain something did not grow to replicate Ueshiba's abilities. Looking at Omoto kyo, how many people who don't practice techniques have replicated Ueshiba's abilities? How many Omoto kyo people who do practice techniques have replicated Ueshiba's abilities? Yet, when we look at Ueshiba's peers, we find that they did replicate exploits and abilities. Those peers did not practice Omoto kyo nor misogi. What they did practice was exercises for Daito ryu aiki. This aiki was the power behind Ueshiba's misogi and not the other way around.

[emptycloud]

there is something that ties it all together. Something that has been driving the martial arts, and many other ways for thousands of years.
Here in Scotland we only need look to our very own David Hume, here in the city of enlightenment, Athens of the North..

One-eon nen.

Though I dislike to use the term. Hume stumbled upon it also. If we were to have pictures in our place of practice I guess it would be more appropriate to have his.

Once the the concept is grasped then the body work really begins, seeing through the secret games we play in practice.
Heidegger saw this to, that thinking and being could not be separated, that everything arises together, uke, nage, walls of the dojo, mats, roof, oxygen, light, cleaner outside in the hall, car horn in the distance and so on.

One-eon nen

This is what unites all practices. We can not avoid this. This is the heart of Ueshibas practice. (The heart of buddhism, Tantra, yoga, philosophy, probably physics, meditation, cutting practice, the fine arts, Beethoven, sporting greats, poetry, definitely physics, the list is as long as human activities)

form follows content...

looping the first nen impulse....the failure of this reveals the mind/body study and is the burden of life long practice.

One-eon nen...though I dislike to use the term...

Rich

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/23 ... c533d8.jpg

I'm going to speak through your post and address your topic for other people. When it comes to Ueshiba and his aikido, you have yet to provide any single instance that you understand any of it. Let me repost below. You can Zen yourself into another world all you want, you can misogi yourself until you're completely drenched under the waterfall and it isn't going to get you any closer to Ueshiba's aikido. For Ueshiba, it was the other way around. His Daito ryu aiki (the body changing method) infused his spirituality. His aiki bolstered and informed his spirituality. Abe, 11 years of misogi, could not do what Ueshiba could, could not fathom how Ueshiba was doing it, and had no clue where to start ... after 11 years misogi ... until Ueshiba showed him what? Budo. Daito ryu aiki was all that Ueshiba knew.

Let's flip to Tohei. Studying judo. Getting tossed and failing. Goes home and starts kicking support beams until he's physically stronger. So much that he's rattling the house. Goes back to judo and starts tossing peers left and right. Meets Ueshiba and gets tossed like a rag doll. Tohei, after years of judo, could not do what Ueshiba could, could not fathom how Ueshiba was doing it, and had no clue where to start ... after years of judo ... until Ueshiba showed him what? Budo. Daito ryu aiki was all that Ueshiba knew.

Let's flip to XYZ person. You pick the name. Karate, kendo, sumo, boxing, etc. It's the same story.

Let's look at them individually ... this pre-war person from judo, after training with Ueshiba, was able to replicate his skills. This pre-war person from kendo, after training with Ueshiba, was able to replicate his skills. This pre-war person from pick the martial art, after training with Ueshiba was able to replicate his skills. The entire common denominator in both cases, spiritual and martial, is ... Daito ryu aiki.

Now look to Ueshiba's peers who also replicated what he could do and the smoking gun is pretty much narrowed down to one thing and one thing only: Daito ryu aiki. The body changing method. NOT Daito ryu. NOT Daito ryu techniques. But Daito ryu aiki.

You can spend your entire life studying Zen. Many people have all around the world and have never ever come anywhere close to reproducing Ueshiba's skills and abilities. Zen wasn't the answer. The research into Takeda, Ueshiba, etc prove it beyond a doubt.

Mark

What happens when we look at all the people who are studying misogi-no-gyo or Omoto kyo or Zen meditation? If we focus on those people, you still have no one who has achieved Ueshiba's abilities. How many people who focused on the spiritual only and practiced misogi exercises have replicated Ueshiba's abilities? We can turn to one of Ueshiba's students for an answer. Around 1952, Seiseki Abe says this about talking to Ueshiba, "How did you ever learn such a wonderful budo", and he answered, "Through misogi." Now I had been doing misogi since 1941 and when I heard that Aikido came from misogi, suddenly "snap", the two came together. (1)

Seiseki Abe had been doing misogi for at least 10 years prior to training in aikido and wasn't at all near Ueshiba's skills or abilities, nor did he even see misogi and aikido as being similar. However, under Ueshiba's tutelage, Seiseki Abe continued to grow as a martial artist. We can see from this that something that Ueshiba knew and had trained was the underlying basis for powering his misogi exercises. Other people who did not have that certain something did not grow to replicate Ueshiba's abilities. Looking at Omoto kyo, how many people who don't practice techniques have replicated Ueshiba's abilities? How many Omoto kyo people who do practice techniques have replicated Ueshiba's abilities? Yet, when we look at Ueshiba's peers, we find that they did replicate exploits and abilities. Those peers did not practice Omoto kyo nor misogi. What they did practice was exercises for Daito ryu aiki. This aiki was the power behind Ueshiba's misogi and not the other way around.

not studying Zen..studying body...by whatever means..

one-eon nen is just language..it points at something

David Hume arrived at the same thing, he is buried not far from my house.

There is wellspring of knowledge where ever you go, drink up..

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Hume

ps.. just had tea with a friend who has been sitting zazen for decades. I asked him about spirituality, zen and the martial arts.
He squared me up again on the subject by quoting Katuski Sekida..

" Zen is not, in my view, philosophy or mysticism. It is simply a practice of readjustment of nervous activity. That is, it restores the distorted nervous system to its normal function".

nuff said..

[Aqui]

This is a short video of prewar aikido (Karl Geis was graduated under Kenji Tomiki).



I wonder how you guys here especially Dan and Mark rate it???

Thanks Aqui

[wiesiek]

hmm,
I`m not >aiki< guy, anyway - sow some such demos,
,
but why uke is stiff like wooden plank? /black belt ? for God sake!/
it
is
demo, all right,
so
uke has to be stiff like cadaver ? , ....
heard it 100 times,
yup, master is lockin` all his joints at once, in the blink of the ki ...
demo it naturally
or
your shit is fake

such demo has some value /maybe ?/for greenhorn to show idea, maybe again .

[slowEdie]

What I really don't understand is ...why not teach your own son?

The fulllll monty...

[Spncr]

What I really don't understand is ...why not teach your own son?

The fulllll monty...

I'm not as well versed in aikido history as some on RSF are, but I do know that not everyone is capable of learning these things or willing to, or interested in, etc. Just because someone has a son, doesn't mean he'll grow up to be just as skilled at X as his father was.

[slowEdie]

It appears to not be just a case of "not as skilled at"
rather the whole skillset has a different basis!!

[Spncr]

It appears to not be just a case of "not as skilled at"
rather the whole skillset has a different basis!!

Exactly, thats why i wrote:

...but I do know that not everyone is capable of learning these things or willing to, or interested in, etc.

Hence, the different skillset.

[emptycloud]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GnBWdZ86O94

basic push/pull exercises. Pretty easy and good practice to work on.. don't use hydraulic machinery on your uke though.

[mrtoes]

This is a short video of prewar aikido (Karl Geis was graduated under Kenji Tomiki).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qc1yTq63C8k

I wonder how you guys here especially Dan and Mark rate it???

Aiki hopping floor flopping ukes. If the teacher has anything it's impossible to tell because his students are so conditioned to dive on contact. I really don't see anything else going on here Aqui.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GnBWdZ86O94

basic push/pull exercises. Pretty easy and good practice to work on.. don't use hydraulic machinery on your uke though.

Push/pull exercises as a test of structure are gold and one of my favourite things to train but all we've got here is a really tense guy who is bracing into his front and back legs as he's pull/pushed (see how long his stance is and how he trembles throughout his whole body from the tension?) The teacher isn't much better, he gets much lighter force than the other guy (of course!) but you can see him shifting his hips and bracing against the force, all the meanwhile getting lost in heady abstractions babbling about balance and levels of presence which aren't even slightly reflected by his body. I can take anyone off the street and get them to brace against my force like that.

Matthew

[WVMark]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GnBWdZ86O94

basic push/pull exercises. Pretty easy and good practice to work on.. don't use hydraulic machinery on your uke though.

Push/pull exercises as a test of structure are gold and one of my favourite things to train but all we've got here is a really tense guy who is bracing into his front and back legs as he's pull/pushed (see how long his stance is and how he trembles throughout his whole body from the tension?) The teacher isn't much better, he gets much lighter force than the other guy (of course!) but you can see him shifting his hips and bracing against the force, all the meanwhile getting lost in heady abstractions babbling about balance and levels of presence which aren't even slightly reflected by his body. I can take anyone off the street and get them to brace against my force like that.

Matthew

Yeah. One of the best checks to see if you're really doing push/pull correctly, is to try the above push/pull tests in the video ... BUT lift the leg that you'd normally use to brace with. For example, in the video when the teacher is pushing against the student, the student should be able to lift that back foot off the floor while remaining stable. When the teacher pulled the arm, the student should be able to lift the front foot off the floor while remaining stable. That will let the student know if they are bracing against the push/pull, which is a bad thing. (Note: Just for clarification ... You can't lift the legs indefinitely so I'm not saying to levitate. If you're bracing, you won't be able to lift the foot off the floor at all. Being able to lift your foot off the floor while receiving the push/pull helps to show you aren't bracing.)