the rum soaked fist: internal martial arts forum

I was wondering what the dantian is, more specifically I am wondering if it is possible to define some sort of correlate that relates to modern physiology e.g. muscles? My theory is, as ever, that all human movement can be defined by how muscles are used. I'm not, I hope, trying to re-badge the concept or trying to enforce a different cultural idea. If I can understand the mechanics of a thing I usually feel as though I understand it.

it works more like "condenser" in electonic not like some mechanical device
by
proper body mechanics /connections/you allow "current" to flow

Its your lower torso. All the deep muscles that "wrap" everything in that area. The center of the body, the hara. Develop it enough and you can control how it moves, being able to rotate it vertically and horizontally. Contract it and expand it at will, like a ball. Whole body explosive power, inward or outward, starts there. Its where the gunpowder is. Develop it enough, and you wont need distance to generate force.

At least that's what skilled people say...im not one of em.

That's two ideas I need to think about. If I'm getting the gist, it seems to include pre-tensioning: like using one muscle to stretch another. And then letting that go either upwards or downwards as well left to right or any combination thereof?

if
you start with "pre tensioning" you are tearing off wire and current /qi/ is unable to flow,
i think.

oop`s my mistake, "thinking" is unproper is this case
btw
do you know any real /physical/ test for " fa qi" ?

Hmm - I can't do it, but I've seen moving dantians - "deep muscles of the area" is one interpretation, but that is not what people who can do it say, that is how we (the uninitiated) often interpret it.

There are various ways to train it, some are moving (like the Dai family squatting), others are still (like meditation).

You need to arrange all your movements from your center. Every dancer and every athlete understand this. There's nothing mystical about it. When you strike from your dan tian, you use power from your whole body, not just from the dan tian.

Sprint wrote:I was wondering what the dantian is, more specifically I am wondering if it is possible to define some sort of correlate that relates to modern physiology e.g. muscles? My theory is, as ever, that all human movement can be defined by how muscles are used. I'm not, I hope, trying to re-badge the concept or trying to enforce a different cultural idea. If I can understand the mechanics of a thing I usually feel as though I understand it.

This is something I really want to know in Western anatomical terms in relation to Dai Xin Yi Quan dan tian work. There must be some type of special x-ray thing which can x-ray in motion. If I find one in NZ, I will try and get my teacher (master Yan Long Chang, hooked up to it).

JB

all the best Dai,
but
..."imagination became reality..." /from Olson book/
so
quite hard trask to x-rays imagination

problem is, that in IMA we have to deal with pate of real and esoteric things mixed up in different proportions /depends of school,master, etc/
in addition almost all slighty different approches seems to work!

not everything can be reduced to a "thing"......dantian is a relationship that comes about over time through development, it is seen and felt as a ball that allows the energy of the body to be properly directed, separating hips from waist, allowing the power of the legs to go down and the waist to lift up......it is like a delta in a river, the movement over time creates accumulation and fertility

I like to think of it as the exact physical center of your body.

centre of the energy sphere,
physical centre of the body is close, but not exactly in qihai point

It's a group of musculature approximating to the core to some degree, lower abdomen and groin area - though it isn't quite exactly the same thing as your centre of gravity. the develepmental training of it is somewhat specialised and leads to a ball like rotational quality in and around this area.

It's important because this drives all movement from the centre to the extremities both defensive and offensive, movement begins in "the core". At least that's what I train for with my tai chi chuan on a fundemental level.

Just like everything in CMA the dantien has multiple possible meanings and interpretations.
People who are into energetics tend to think of the DT as the energy center of the body which contains jing etc...
People who do xinyi think of the dantien in a completely different way since they actually use the physical area in their lower abdomen as a musculature that can move.
I think pigeon holing the DT to any specific thing is a bit narrow. Better to acknowledge that it can be any of those options, depending on what you are training for