Why are there secrets?

[Methods]

Secrets, I dont need no stinking secrets.....
I used to think there were secrets until I became a teacher and my students started to ask when they would learn the secrets - lol
The only secrets there are is the hard work that goes into training. Keep going further and the more you learn, that is all there is to it, unless you got some stupid ass teacher that with holds info so you keep coming back - its an ego trip that keeps you guessing, paying and bowing.

[Ron Panunto]

If anything, such views help me by way of allowing me to clearly present a very visible exception through my personal demonstration of Tai-Chi Chuan knowledge and skills that are seldom seen elsewhere.

Glad to see that humility is not one of your problems Doc.

[Doc Stier]

If anything, such views help me by way of allowing me to clearly present a very visible exception through my personal demonstration of Tai-Chi Chuan knowledge and skills that are seldom seen elsewhere.

Glad to see that humility is not one of your problems Doc.

Oops!

Thanks for bringing that to my attention. That didn't come out as I meant for it to. Here's what I meant to say... "If anything, such views help me by way of allowing me to clearly present a very visible exception to the overly soft, limp noodle variety of Tai-Chi Chuan usually seen elsewhere".

[Chris McKinley]

Nah, you had it right the first time, Doc....that wasn't a brag, it was just a statement of fact. Anybody offering Taijiquan as an actual martial art would be able to make the same claim. Most of it is so much watered-down table scraps from CMC's 5th generation "students" that, unlike most every other martial art, Taijiquan is usually advertised in the New Age voodoo section in the back of the paper along with crystals, yoga, rebirthing, and tarot card readings.....all of which are probably more martial.

[Ben]

....all of which are probably more martial.

Nice.

[cerebus]

Interestingly enough, I've found the "overly soft, limp noodle" level of relaxation to be very effective in fighting. That's why I like the Cheng Man Ching Tai Chi, it's about as soft & noodly as it gets...

[Chris McKinley]

There's a great deal to be learned from developing one's listening, blending and yielding skills that can have a powerful impact on one's overall fighting skill. That said...

I've never had an easier time dealing with Taijiquan guys than with those who thought the Yin-only ladies' wrist style would actually work for them against someone who not only knew how to fight but was also conversant in both Yin and Yang energies and knew how to combine them, as well as being able to focus, disperse or hide their center. Almost invariably, they were so used to students who were wowed by their listening skills in the limited context of push hands and so rarely actually pressured by anyone with even a modicum of real fighting ability that they came to believe their own hype. Usually it doesn't take more than a few seconds to make a fairly dramatic point if such is appropriate to the exchange.

Even when it's not me providing the demonstration, most of the time the excuse is given that the other person must have "muscled" their way through, implying that the "epic fail" of their defenses didn't count. Beside the fact that this is a bit of sour grapes, it ignores the fact that if you can't deal with an attacker purely "muscling" his way through you, then your stuff doesn't work.

[Doc Stier]

Interestingly enough, I've found the "overly soft, limp noodle" level of relaxation to be very effective in fighting. That's why I like the Cheng Man Ching Tai Chi, it's about as soft & noodly as it gets...

True 'sung' or relaxation is a good thing.

As a manifestation of softer Yin (-) Chi, however,it needs to be balanced with an equal manifestation of firmer Yang (+) Chi in order to avoid having only soft, yielding defensive responses without sufficient strength and power in offensive fa-jin applications. By maintaining an equilibrium of Yin and Yang, the inevitable combative vulnerabilities at either polar extreme can be prevented.

[cerebus]

Yes, of course. One must be able to manifest power in counter-attack, but that too can come from deep relaxation, coming from the feet and legs, through the waist and manifesting in the strike or throw. In fact, greater relaxation can lead to greater power as well as greater speed.

[Doc Stier]

Yes, of course. One must be able to manifest power in counter-attack, but that too can come from deep relaxation, coming from the feet and legs, through the waist and manifesting in the strike or throw. In fact, greater relaxation can lead to greater power as well as greater speed.

Agreed on all points.

However, most modern tai-chi chuan practitioners only train to develop the soft and relaxed qualities for push hands neutralization skill, not to maximize their speed and power for offense in real fighting.

[cerebus]

Fortunately for me (or so I keep telling myself ), I suck at push hands...

[JusticeZero]

I have a few "secrets". They aren't secret because i'm withholding them, they are secret because if I told it to the student I have right now, they would look at me blankly, then nod and say it made sense, then be completely unable to make it do anything useful, and distract themself from the time spent on developing the gliding flow i'm trying to work into them at the moment before I start trying to work on coiling. The gliding was a 'secret' then because I had no way to explain it in a way that would make much sense. Arts aren't that complicated; you have a seed that takes a lot of work to internalize, and some techniques and drills to impart the seed, then a bunch of nifty variant stuff that anyone who has that seed should be able to work out given a bit of thought.

[Doc Stier]

OK, so seriously now. Can you guys really keep a secret?

You can?

Fantastic! So can I.

Catch ya'll later.