Finally back/ training for bar security

[Doc Stier]

Psychological persuasion oftentimes worked well for me as a doorman and bouncer back in the day. I'd tell guys, "Listen, man, the manager just called the cops, so you can either walk out of here on your own steam before they arrive, or you can wait for their assistance. Just thought you might appreciate knowing that they're already on their way over here." Other times I'd tell them, "You know, if the cops arrest you here tonight, it'll be Monday afternoon before you get out of jail. Is it really worth spending your entire weekend in jail for this? If I were you, man, I'd haul ass out of here while I still could."

I was initially surprised to see how many guys immediately headed for the door unassisted, even guys who were damned near blind drunk, and without the coercion of anyone putting hands on them in any way, and thus without any fight at all. Many of them would even thank me for the head's up as they left the building.

In those instances where such tactics didn't work, I would usually try to keep the guy talking to me until the cops arrived, and let them take it from there. However, if the guy put hands on me or took a swing at me, I would move to knock his ass out as fast as possible, hopefully appearing to others that more than simple luck had enabled me to put the guy down and out that quickly. This usually discouraged others from joining the fray, and I could then haul the SOB outside. Shock value is sometimes worth its weight in gold in such situations.

In this way, fighting was held to a minimum, furniture and glassware rarely got broken, and if the guy regained consciousness with a bad attitude before the cops showed up, at least he was already out of the club, and any further fighting that might occur would take place outdoors, not in the club. Ah, the good old days!

But then one weekend, I took time off to attend a friend's wedding out of town. That weekend, some drunk got into a very heated argument with the bartender near closing time. He proceeded to pull a pistol out his pocket, shot the bartender and two of the bouncers who were attempting to intervene, killing the bartender on the spot. I gave my notice when I heard what had happened, knowing that it could have been me, and have never worked in clubs since then. I realized that my life is worth more to me than any amount of money anyone is willing to pay me as a doorman or a bouncer.

Doc Stier

[Ba-men]

Doc Stier wrote: Psychological persuasion oftentimes worked well for me as a doorman and bouncer back in the day. I'd tell guys, "Listen, man, the manager just called the cops, so you can either walk out of here on your own steam before they arrive, or you can wait for their assistance.

This is what I did too. I used to call it "Verbal Judo" When someone is intoxicated (i.e soused) its fairly easy to break their train of thought and defuse the situation. Psychology 101. If your going to bounce or work security I suggest one get real good at using this. It will be the number one tool in your arsenal. With me, most of the time (99%) it never got physical. The saying is "if it got to that point U have made a mistake somewhere down the line." Around the same time as working as a bouncer, I was in charge of security for an emergency room. That environment is damn near just as bad or worse than being a bouncer in a bar. That's were I honed my "verbal judo."

Once, I had this nut job who cut his ex girl friend up with a broken bottle and tried to force his way into seeing her at the emergency room. Drunk as shit, he pulled a knife on me and demanded to see his girl. instead of getting physical (i.e. there were people waiting i.e. emergency room...not some place to throw down with a drunk with a knife) I stayed calm and and gave a surprised look and played like I knew him or his brother from somewhere growing up. (I didn't know the guy from jack...I was betting he was prepared to cut a stranger, but not a friend from the hood...at least it would have gained me the needed time to prepare as he mentally debated whether he wanted to or not) Long story short, I got him outside and had him calmly smoking a cigarette and unarmed when the cops showed up. (luckily, all without a fight)

Doc Stier wrote: I gave my notice when I heard what had happened, knowing that it could have been me, and have never worked in clubs since then. I realized that my life is worth more to me than any amount of money anyone is willing to pay me as a doorman or a bouncer.

Yep, same here.

[Felipe Bidó]

Felipe- In wrestling its called a power nelson, mainly used for turning an opponent. Arm around the front is a three-quarters nelson. Both allow much more freedom than a full nelson, and the quicker release leaves a free hand for any unforeseen complications.

Thank you very much for the info. I didn't know that.

[Darth Rock&Roll]

Doormen have similar training needs to cops in that they are required to attempt to escort the offending patron(s) out of the establishment while doing the minimal necessary harm. This is qualitatively different than the needs of either the average civilian patron of that club or the soldier having a drink at the bar. In several respects, it makes the doorman's job harder in terms of complexity than either of the latter two.

That's very true though one thing that many bouncers don't realize (young ones) or lose sight of is that a bouncer/security guard has no more legal standing to lay hands on someone than any other civilian.

That depends where you are. they actually have special considerations as security professionals in some states and in some Canadian provinces.

For instance, where I live, you must be licensed since 2007 and that training and licensing allows you special rights to act using reasonable force whereby you cannot be charged with assault for doing your job.
It involves filing a use of force report, which is not available to average citizens when they get in a tussle.

here is what you gotta fill out after you act in a capacity that includes violence: http://www.forms.ssb.gov.on.ca/mbs/ssb/ ... 6-008E.pdf

[dragontigerpalm]

I have no knowledge of how it works in Canada. In the US most if not all states do not recognize security guards as having any more legal authority than any other private citizen. Any detaining, restaining or other physical involvement requires reasonable and proportional response and falls under the category of a citizen's arrest which anyone can make. The fact that in many or most states a security guard needs to be licensed by and/or registered with the state to work as either an armed or unarmed guard does not confer any police powers but is a way to screen and weed out unsuitables (ie.felons). Nor does the filling out of an incident report indicate greater legal authority. This is almost always done by guards who work for a contracted security company and less so if at all by in house guards. Regardless, the same questions for detailed information will be asked by the police at the time of the incident or when an investigation, if necessary, is begun.

[dragontigerpalm]

Another thing to consider from a legal perspective when working as a bouncer/security guard is that when an individual or group for that matter is asked or told to leave the premises and simply refuse to do so or even become verbally abusive, the only crime they are guilty of at that point is trespassing which does not legally warrant any physical contact by the guard(s) and is technically a police matter. Obviously reality often plays out differently than the letter of the law. Still bouncers that overreact, are hard chargers and go ballstothewall are asking for legal and/or civil suit problems.
Just as Ba-men and Doc have pointed out good bouncing is 99% psychology, negotiating, salesmanship etc. Control the mind and the body will follow.

[Doc Stier]

"....good bouncing is 99% psychology, negotiating, salesmanship etc. Control the mind and the body will follow."

Very true! Or stated another way, you could also say...lead the mind
and the body will follow.



Doc Stier

[dragontigerpalm]

LOL

[Chris McKinley]

I thought that was free your mind and your ass will follow. Actually, that sounds a bit like Doc's heads up to unruly bar patrons.