What happen to the "pure" TCMA discussion?

[johnwang]

If someone starts a thread of any subject, and if you can redirect the discussion toward:

- CMA won't work.
- MMA is the best,
- MMA is only sport,
- CMA is for killing.
- ...

that thread may have pages after pages debating and last forever.

The longest threads in any forum are always:

- How much do you hate MMA?
- CMA guys don't know shit.
- Let's attack Bruce Lee.
- Sport fight won't work on street.
- ...

Just look at this so called tradition MA forum. You can see the ratio of TCMA discussion vs. MMA discussion are unbelievable.

http://antimma.com/forums/index.php?board=1.0

No matter where you go, you can always find somebody who can turn any diiscussion into "MMA is better than CMA". Do you think this is strange? What happen to the "pure" TCMA discussion?

I was in a Judo forum for a short period of time until some Judo guy said, "You are not even a Judoka, nobody will be interesting in your opinions. Why are you still hanging around here." I wasn't very happy when I left that forum. Now I look at back. That guy may just want to keep that Judo forum "as pure as possible" which is not a bad idea after all. The funny thing is in our TCMA forum, we don't have any BMF who intends to keep our forum "pure" and say, "You are not even a TCMA guy, nobody will be interesting in your opinion. Why are you still hanging around here?"

[shawnsegler]

I don't know. Lets fix that.

I'm all down with it.

S

[Joe L.]

I'd imagine because its just flat out easier to point to other people fighting well (by using MMA examples, being the most abundant) than going out there and fighting for yourself with CMA and speaking upon the experience(s)?

Not to mention a good amount of people are delving into MMA type training or even competing, so of course they are going to talk about it at length. Its where their interests are at currently, and where the general population is getting the impression that most 'real' stuff is going on (in the MMA community).

Yet I think the ones who know how to use their TCMA, and have a real love and passion for it, contribute and maybe feel no need to go out of their way to defend it. If you know it works, and it has worked in the past, there isn't a big need to try and defend it at every which way. People will always talk shit and try to act as if they know best and have the foremost knowledge of which style or art is superior, yet in between all of that bickering are some true gems.. even if they aren't 9 pages long. I'd imagine the truly good info shouldn't be a very long debate/thread, and just be either used to enhance practice or just make it's point.

[SPJ]

talking about some chinese forums in China, taiwan, hongkong and southeast asia.

1. some general forums with substyle subforums,

usually people may find their own styles and participate in the discussions.

pretty much everybody knows everybody or schools, so the discussions are usually polite and end well.

sort of social and free info exchange

2. a lot of private forums of a single style, these are usually sponsored by a single school/group of people

they are usually more serious, members are by invitation only

or the members need to be "approved" before proceeding.

==

however, we still can get some very good info over all, even thou, discussions are limited in private forums.

--

[SPJ]

believe it or not chinese MA forums also include mma/bjj, san shou subforums

they are in the categories of sports combat

there are also some street fights subforums

so the crowd and discussions are not mixing up.

for example

http://www.wushu2008.cn/index.php

they have tkd, mt, street fight subforums, too.

[johnwang]

Some guy will even go as far as saying, "If you have never fought any MMA guy, you should not post on this 'traditional' forum". Very machu attitude indeed.

[edededed]

"Mixed martial arts" are not just "mixed" - they have their own particular methods that are quite different from baguazhang, xingyiquan, etc. Baguazhang, for example, is already mixed, but that does not make it the same as MMA.

I too would be happy to see more "pure" TCMA discussions - as that is what I personally come here for (otherwise, there are many other places to go to post at).

[mrtoes]

If we only talked about pure TCMA without regard to what the rest of the world is up to this forum would be a poorer place for it. I feel lucky to be learning TCMA at a time where there is more cross talk between disciplines.

The longest threads will always be the most contentious and the least productive, that's the same on every forum I think!

[KEND]

The site JW referred to is a 'young' site, everyone is out to prove themselves As sites mature the members are more respectful and more knowledge, rather than rant and rhetoric, flow.
In the 'old days', when I studied Shaolin, students would routinely try out their stuff in bars, the training was full contact and it was life style rather than a sport. The students still go out and work out with MMA fighters and other styles, using their training as a template, to the benefit of both parties.

[everything]

The answer is explained in Chris McKinley's article here viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5069 - because basically we're silly primates. I see plenty of TCMA, specifically IMA, discussion here. Putting it in the modern day context (including lots of modern sport mma topics) just makes sense. Some folks here may be professionaly bodyguards, bouncers etc., but no one here is a bodyguard for a traveling caravan in 18th or 19th century China or responsible for defending a rural village with farm tools improvised as h2h weapons. Some stuff from another context is still great to talk about and study and apply to the modern context. But some stuff is the ritualized primate stuff Chris mentioned. Seems like this board covers it all.

[H2O]

So what about me? I threw a guy with Cracking in Judo last week. Almost broke the poor guys arm. I've thrown SC guys with O Soto Gari. I've been lucky enough to train with the best in both CMA and MMA. I've learned a lot of great stuff from both and guess what? The two are not as different as most people think.

[Andy_S]

SNIP
I've learned a lot of great stuff from both and guess what? The two are not as different as most people think.
SNIP

Exactly.

I personally think CMA have a more refined, healthy and sensible approach to the practice of MA - though their combative efficacy is blurred and muddled with secrecy, outdated training methods, over-emphasis on lineage and frequent allusions to philosophical/spiritual concepts that bear no real relationship to the business of combat.

Was amused to see posters on the other forum John referenced refusing to believe that a certain poster (CSC)on that forum could not have trained with GM Chang...

[johnwang]

The two are not as different as most people think.

The world will be so peaceful if everybody think the same way as you do.

One of my students has a Shanshou group. They are working on the ground game now so you may call them MMA guys if you want to. Everybody in that group has tattoos on their body. They even have the same tattoos. The Taiji group that I used to teach, nobody has tattoos.

Difference? Yes!

Why? Don't know!

[H2O]

I personally think CMA have a more refined, healthy and sensible approach to the practice of MA

I used to think that too. Now, I think it has more to do with the individual instructor than the specific style.

[Bao]

Martial arts are all a part of the globalisation nowadays. We don't speak about the arts in their own contexts. We compare them and disuss them together with other arts. I think this is a good development. People, especially more experienced practitioners, seems to be more aware about the limits of their own arts, and try to learn how to deal with "threats" from other arts.