Control your opponent's striking weapons

[DeusTrismegistus]

If I grab someone with my left hand on either wrist, and they try to escape my grab, that is when I would attack. The grab will set up a reaction that can be used to enter.

[Wanderingdragon]

Or to set you up, to grab and hold is to focus, here you lose all concept of what is going on elsewhere. when you grab and hold you have already taken some weapons out of the mix, I know exactlyt where they are, what they are doing, and what they want to do thank you very much.

[johnwang]

a very decent PH grappler grabbed me at Chenjiagou with a very hard grip...

As long as you rotate your hand to against his thumb (not against his other 4 fingers), you can always break your opponent's grip no matter how strong his grip is. This is why the wrist is not a good contact point but a "temporary" contact point and only used for distraction only.

If I grab someone with my left hand on either wrist, and they try to escape my grab, that is when I would attack. The grab will set up a reaction that can be used to enter.

I have always assumed this is just a general CMA strategy and can apply to almost any style. The purpose is to "establish dominance". The "strategy" should not have any style boundary IMO.

Even Taiji use grip for

- fetching arm
- step out, deflect, "grab", and punch
- pull back (Lu)
- double pulling
- single whip
- cloud hands
- ...

[Michael Dasargo]

Too many abstract threads lately. I though I'll start a more concrete thread.

If you left hand grabs on your opponent's right wrist, your right hand grabs on your opponent's left wrist, you can temporary take your opponent's striking weapon away. Any of his intention can be sense through your Tinjin. IMO, this is more powerful than just "build an arm bridge" that your oponent can destroy that bridge anytime he wants to. This "control your opponent's striking weapons" concept is not popular in the striking arts but it's a very important concept in both the eastern and western throwing arts.

It's a big difference from the following "bridge build" approach:

"A and B face each other in push hands distance. A puts R hand on B's R wrist and L hand on B's R elbow as B offers the R forearm. B places L hand on A's R elbow. From this starting point, A pushes with L hand on B's R elbow..."

The advantage of the 1st approach is when and how to destroy that bridge is under your control which is not the case in the 2nd approach. It makes common sense that if you have controled your opponent's striking weapons, you are safe at that particular moment. If you take advantage on that small window to move in, your safety will be improved. For example, if your left hand push your opponent's right arm up, your right hand push his left arm down, you can slide in and use your right shoulder to strike at your opponent's chest. Your opponent won't have the 3rd arm to stop your shoulder strike,

How important is this concept in your system?

Hi Wang Shifu,

This idea is EXTREMELY important in our mantis style... "Zhan Nian" in both 8 step and 7 star.

Zhan: incidental contact leads to passive sticking, like brusing up against pollen.
Nian: contact leads to active trapping.

Zhan occurs when either we strike and the opponent blocks, or vice versa. Once contact is made we aim so secure and control the opponents striking weapons.

In 7 Star, it leads to rapid fire striking then trip.
In 8 Step, it leads to more taiji/shuai like entry into a throw.

Mike

PS
I'm sure it's already been defined, but sticky hands leads to unbalance and strike, push hands leads to unbalnce and throw. If the main goal is to strike,throw, or submit, then all the other transitory stuff should come second to that goal. It's my opinion that although they are important, too much time is invested in push/sticky hands. Ironically, the training method seems "unbalanced".

[johnwang]

too much time is invested in push/sticky hands. Ironically, the training method seems "unbalanced".

Too much time has been spent on "build bridge". Not enought time has been spent on "destroy bridge and enter". To be able to stick on your opponent's arm for 1/4 second is all you need. You don't need to stick there forever.