William C. C. Chen Tai Chi Training...

[cerebus]

I was just wondering if anyone here had trained extensively with William C. C. Chen in Tai Chi and if so, what is his training like? Are there any specifics that you could describe? I'm very interested in what I've been reading by and about him over the years and would love to hear some detailed insights into his training methods. Thanks!

[Juan]

Well, I train with one of his students here in LA. I can't speak about WCC Chen's classes but my teacher puts alot of emphasis on the idea of the three nails in the foot, rooting (which goes with the three nails), using whole body power when striking, and also focus on the kua opening and closing. In class we do some form work, some push hands and some sparring. I am lucky enough to have a teacher who will put on the gloves and spar with me, from what he tells me WCC Chen does the same.

Check out WCC Chen's website to read more on the concept of the three nails. He also has articles on there about fighting, breathing and body mechanics. Hope that helps a bit.

[neijia_boxer]

...I've been to his school in NY but only got to hang out with his son. A teacher of mine studied with William and showed me alot of his San shou stuff. the video clips of taiji and pakua drills I showed in the video section with the jab and cross with open palm strikes is the same in his system except with fists. Williams emphasis is on weight shifting in striking (solid and empty) weight distributions with jab and croos, hook, ect. and hitting areas so the strike has an unbalancing 'push' effect when hitting certain striking area like ribs, dan tien, temples, jaw, ect.

[Swede]

I can only speak from a few seminars, so I have no idea if this is how he trains at his school, but he really emphasized natural, everyday movements instead of punching. We did drills that were based on some sort of movement you would do every day without the same tension the intent to hit hard can produce, such as handing someone a pen (jab), scratch your back (as in reach over opposite shoulder--upper cut), putting shampoo and conditioner on the other person (head level hooks on each side), ketchup and mustard (body level hooks). We also had rolled up newspaper held by different colored tape that we were to grab at the color he called out (he said repeatedly if you can grab you can hit).

[neijia_boxer]

The was an unusual rhythm drill he taught by using the words: coffee, tea, milk, ect.

if someone hits you with coffee, hit em back with some tea and milk. If they hit you with milk, whack em back with coffee and add some sugar.if they whack you with coffee, milk, sugar, and tea, give them a double dose back like like coffee , tea....(pause)... coffee, coffee, tea, milk.....

[cerebus]

Interesting. Thanks guys. Matt, what did the terms coffee, milk, sugar, etc stand for or symbolize?

[neijia_boxer]

Interesting. Thanks guys. Matt, what did the terms coffee, milk, sugar, etc stand for or symbolize?

various strikes like jab, cross, hook, uppercut, kicks, ect.

[gosao]

That's pretty funny.. here comes a coffee tea milk sugar combo. I'm guessing that defending against everyday items instead of hooks, uppercuts, and kicks we can relax more. I think in one of Bob smiths books, CMC said that if confronted with a sword or knife you should imagine it as a "feather duster" so you wont tense up as much I guess.

[kreese]

Juan,

How does what you learn from your TCC class mix and match with the Muay Thai? Are there any major conflicts between what the two styles emphasize? What is like sparring your TCC teacher, does it have a distinctive flavor compared to the MT sparring?

[everything]

interesting mental trick. most people don't reach for milk with whole body. guess that is in another part of the training.

[cerebus]

interesting mental trick. most people don't reach for milk with whole body. guess that is in another part of the training.

Ah, but they SHOULD! That's one of the points I keep reading about. EVERY action should be done with relaxed, full-body coordination at all times. I've been experimenting with it while walking and during my running as well. Cool stuff...

[Juan]

Juan,

How does what you learn from your TCC class mix and match with the Muay Thai? Are there any major conflicts between what the two styles emphasize? What is like sparring your TCC teacher, does it have a distinctive flavor compared to the MT sparring?

Kreese,

That is a good question. I find that it is easier to mix my Tai Chi more into my Muay Thai than I can mix my MT into my TCC, if that makes any sense at all. When I am sparring in my MT class I am able to use more of the principles and postures from TCC than I am able to mix my MT into my TCC sparring. But that is because when I spar with my sifu we do not kick. From what I understand, WCC Chen does very little kicking in his style. We also do not clinch, and obviously we do not throw knees. The style of boxing my sifu employs is very different from regular western boxing as well. He uses the sticking to your opponent very well and is very fast with his counters so it is difficult to pull off combos with him. However, if I am able to find some space/distance that is when I am able to land a few combos before he closes the distance.

My sifu told me, and I have heard from others as well, how Taiji compliments other arts. I find it to be true in my Muay Thai. I'm sure if we were to clinch and throw knees and do more kicking in our TCC sparring I would be better able to blend my MT into the TCC sparring. Again, it always goes with what rule set is agreed upon, although I find the MT sparring to be less restrictive. You can see some of the TCC sparring I'm talking about in my youtube page. It's not a great representation as sifu was going very light with me so as not to injure me the week before my first fight, but you may get the gist of what I'm talking about.

Sweede and Neijia, My sifu always uses the same analogies as well (i.e. pouring the shampoo)

[Bao]

Coffee and milk... W.C.C. Chen is much for using analogies so you keep away from aggression and the urge to over-power your opponent. I have had a couple of teachers who do the same. When you strike it is very easy to tense up and block yourself. You need to find ways to keep your body relaxed and a calm mind.

[ShortFormMike]

I was doing some push hands with one of Ben Lo's students last tuesday. he learned a bit from WCC Chen and described him as "a scary guy". he said at one seminar he went around punching people in the shoulder with a light, glancing blow. some people turned pale and a couple threw up.

another friend i met through a BKF seminar goes to Chen's school. says he's a gladiator.

[kreese]

Thanks, Juan. I'll check out the clips. I have a friend who does BJJ and boxing now, but even though our TCC training was never fully martial he still finds much value in the practice. It may also be that the benefits are not purely in the fighting realm.