Keeping heels down in Bagua

[johnwang]

When I train my LF, my teacher always required me to keep my heel down in a bow arrow stance. One day I asked him why we kept our heel up in a monkey stance, his answer was "it's different posture". I then asked what if we are changing from a bow arrow stance into a monkey stance, should the heel be down or up? I didn't get a good answer for that.

We cannot discussion certain requirement in CMA without good combat reason. I just don't know the purpose of keeping the heels down. You will need to raise your heel, if you need to:

- spring,
- throw, or
- kick sand back at your opponent's face when he chases you from behind.

Unless you just want to slide your foot on the ground for inner and outer leg bite. If it's for "health" purpose then I don't think it matters whether you keep your heels down or up.

[JusticeZero]

iirc, it is so that lines of force can be made rigid, rather than ductile; thus, rebounding force is forced to rebound back into the target.

[johnwang]

In the

- beginner training, if you heel is moving (heel up) when you strike then you are wrong because you are not rebounding force into the target.
- advance training, if your heel is not moving (heel down) when you strike then you are wrong because you don't have the mobility during your striking when your opponent is moving back.

So I believe the "heel down" during striking is only the beginner stage requirement. You should be able to generate the same amount of power by using your 'springing" with the ball of your foot in the advance level stage.

Trying to hit a moving target is much harder than trying to hit a static one.

[JusticeZero]

Ah. I had heard from a CMA stylist that the mobility happened before and after the strike, but that the heel drilled into the ground briefly during the strike.

[johnwang]

Ah. I had heard from a CMA stylist that the mobility happened before and after the strike, but that the heel drilled into the ground briefly during the strike.

I just don't know how to do that in "lighting speed". If it's possible then I don't think the "monkey stance" will ever be invented.

[JusticeZero]

He moved on the balls of the feet, but stomped down with his back heel as part of his punches.

[velalavela]

I was more interested in this point from Body Work.

While doing that try to "send" up / out through your hands and down / out through your feet both at the same time.

Not so much in saying the heels have to be on the ground to issue force.

Some strikes in Northern Praying Mantis forms I'ved learnt are done in a similar way to what John Wang is describing in Monkey boxing.

The thing is, when force is issued forwards in a strike it is also issued by you into the ground.

[gerard]

Miro,

How do you move forward by just using the kwa? Swinging the legs? I got the idea when sitting on a chair but when standing it seems impossible.

Anyway I am tied to my teacher and really have no option but master the mud stepping method otherwise I found more natural the heel-toe/natural stepping more appealing to me. Anyway I think both options are correct and maybe some individuals find more suitable either depending on their own biomechanical structure. Like my teacher a shorter guy than myself (I am 6 foot).

I reckon short people find mud stepping easier.

What do you think?

Cheers.

[GrahamB]

Miro,

How do you move forward by just using the kwa? Swinging the legs? I got the idea when sitting on a chair but when standing it seems impossible.

Anyway I am tied to my teacher and really have no option but master the mud stepping method otherwise I found more natural the heel-toe/natural stepping more appealing to me. Anyway I think both options are correct and maybe some individuals find more suitable either depending on their own biomechanical structure. Like my teacher a shorter guy than myself (I am 6 foot).

I reckon short people find mud stepping easier.

What do you think?

Cheers.

Hey, just my 2 cents - A lot of these things in internal martial arts that people talk about aren't anatomically possible. You hear people say things like, "raise the arms without using the shoulders", etc... - I've come to the conclusion that what they mean is it should feel like that. So, in moving the legs just using the kwa try to get the feeling that this is what is going on - make sense?

Anyway, another way to approach this is the idea of 'putting your mind in your feet', that BKF talks about a lot. Might help?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KR89GkVvR0k

[johnwang]

A lot of these things in internal martial arts that people talk about aren't anatomically possible.

Some topic doesn't even include the "opponent" in mind such as, " 'spiralling' / 'torquing' the legs into the ground." After all CMA is not just solo performance.