She Ji Cong Ren

Discussion on the three big Chinese internals, Yiquan, Bajiquan, Piguazhang and other similar styles.

She Ji Cong Ren

Postby D_Glenn on Sun Apr 28, 2024 9:17 pm

WW had brought up this story and it reminded me of a lecture my teacher gave about She Ji Cong Ren, (hard to translate it but basically ‘Give up your own goals and comply with your opponent’s goals’), in which he recounted this story.

In Baguazhang the base of the tree is the Qian trigram Lion and the top of the tree is the Kun trigram Qilin (Kirin). All the other animals are the branches in between. The Qilin is the highest level of training and requires the highest level of skill. It uses She Ji Cong Ren, and like Taijiquan it has the methods of Zhan, Nian, Lian and Sui (sticking, adhering, linking and following). In this story he is demonstrating the perfect display of what She Ji Cong Ren is. This is using Zhan Nian but primarily Lian and Sui. Lian is being used when YCF is moving with the pull. While Sui is the method being used when he’s retreating from a push towards himself. Sui is always following just in front of something. Lian is tagging along behind something, always matching pace, but never bumping into or falling behind.

The Story of a Cotton Thread
In the year 1932, Master Yang Cheng Fu and his disciple, Fu Zhong Wen, traveled south to the city of Guang Zhou in Guang Dong Province to teach the art of Tai Chi Chuan. One day, a martial arts teacher by the name of Liu and his disciples went to the residence of Master Yang. Upon observing the way in which Liu was dressed and the manner in which he held himself, Master Yang knew that this man’s talents in fighting were extraordinary. Upon meeting Yang Cheng Fu, Liu raised his hands, saluted Master Yang and said: It is well known that your skills in Tai Chi are superior and for three generations your family has been without equals. I have especially come here to see your skills. Master Yang realized Liu was challenging him to a duel and that the conflict would be unavoidable. Master Yang suddenly thought of an idea to prevent a fight but to maintain the code of the martial world (Wu Lin). He told his disciple, Fu Zhong Wen, to go and get out a one foot piece of cotton thread. Young Fu was shocked when he heard this because the cotton thread was used as a training tool only among the indoor disciples of the Yang style. It was never before shown to outsiders.
Master Yang warmed up by performing Grasp Sparrow’s Tail and Cloud Hands"; thereupon, he took the cotton thread between his thumb and index finger and asked: Who has the strength of a thousand pounds to tear this piece of thread in half? Upon hearing this, Liu sneered at Master Yang while sending one of his disciples out to take the challenge. The disciple grabbed the other end of the cotton thread and asked: When shall we begin? Master Yang replied by saying: It is completely up to you. Following, the disciple fiercely pulled at the thread. Master Yang adhered to his every move. Suddenly the disciple reversed the direction of motion, however, Master Yang, without hesitation, also moved in the same manner.
This went on for several rounds without the disciple being able to tear the thread in two. While the thread was being pulled it remained straight no matter which direction the force was being applied. Liu saw what was occurring and summoned his disciple to step back. After Liu performed several exercises to warm up, he jumped into the air and performed several tornado kicks. Immediately following this, he jumped toward Master Yang as agile as a rabbit and grabbed the other end of the thread. Master Yang was just as agile and moved in the same manner. Without hesitation, Liu jumped back in a retreating maneuver while trying to break the thread; in the same instance, Master Yang followed in Liu’s footsteps preventing the thread from being broken. Afterwards, Liu shot forward as fast as an arrow, then darted to the left and then to the right, moving in all directions. Within all of this motion, both Liu and Master Yang never made contact with each other. The way in which the two moved was similar to a dragon lantern moving in the night. Spectators witnessing the event were astonished by the skill of Yang Cheng Fu. The entire time this was occurring the thread was never broken nor was it even bent. The thread remained straight during the entire match. After a long period of trying to break the thread, Liu was completely out of breath and covered with sweat. Master Yang, on the other hand, was very calm and relaxed without any signs of exhaustion.
When the match was over, Liu realized that the skill level of Master Yang was very extraordinary and therefore held a grand Panquet in honor of Master Yang. From that day forth, both Liu and Master Yang became very good friends. In the same way as Master Yang’s grandfather and father did before him, Yang Cheng Fu had developed his skills of understanding energy (Dong Jin) and listening to energy (Ting Jin) to an outstanding skill level. He was able to adhere and yield to every single move his opponent performed and did not expend any energy. Even to this day, the story of how a piece of thread can demonstrate martial skills is told in the martial arts community near the Guang Zhou region.
Yang Lu Chan was able to build upon the basics of Chen style old frame Tai Chi Chuan and make it more compatible for the common person to learn no matter what his age. At that moment, people termed his style Yang family Tai Chi Chuan. The Yang style passed through reform and constant improvement during the first two generations of father and son. The formal standardization of the style finally occurred when it came into Yang Cheng Fu’s hands. The postures became wide and comfortable; the structure was strict and demanding; the body was upright and erect; and the movements were harmoniously flowing, light, agile, and rooted.


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Last edited by D_Glenn on Mon Apr 29, 2024 4:18 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: She Ji Cong Ren

Postby D_Glenn on Mon Apr 29, 2024 2:11 pm

From Dong Yingjie’s Taiji book, Brennan translates it as
“The basic of basics is to forget about your plans and simply respond to the opponent. We often make the mistake of ignoring what is right in front of us in favor of something that has nothing to do with our immediate circumstances. For such situations it is said: “Miss by an inch, lose by a mile.” You must understand all this clearly. That is why it has been written down for you.”
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Re: She Ji Cong Ren

Postby Yeung on Fri May 03, 2024 1:19 pm

《公孙丑上 - Gong Sun Chou I》
孟子曰:“子路,人告之以有过则喜。禹闻善言则拜。大舜有大焉,善与人同。舍己从人,乐取于人以为善。自耕、稼、陶、渔以至为帝,无非取于人者。取诸人以为善,是与人为善者也。故君子莫大乎与人为善。”
Mencius said, 'When any one told Zi Lu that he had a fault, he rejoiced. When Yu heard good words, he bowed to the speaker. The great Shun had a still greater delight in what was good. He regarded virtue as the common property of himself and others, giving up his own way to follow that of others, and delighting to learn from others to practise what was good. From the time when he ploughed and sowed, exercised the potter's art, and was a fisherman, to the time when he became emperor, he was continually learning from others. To take example from others to practise virtue, is to help them in the same practice. Therefore, there is no attribute of the superior man greater than his helping men to practise virtue.'
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Re: She Ji Cong Ren

Postby D_Glenn on Mon May 06, 2024 4:46 pm

Yeung wrote:《公孙丑上 - Gong Sun Chou I》
孟子曰:“子路,人告之以有过则喜。禹闻善言则拜。大舜有大焉,善与人同。舍己从人,乐取于人以为善。自耕、稼、陶、渔以至为帝,无非取于人者。取诸人以为善,是与人为善者也。故君子莫大乎与人为善。”
Mencius said, 'When any one told Zi Lu that he had a fault, he rejoiced. When Yu heard good words, he bowed to the speaker. The great Shun had a still greater delight in what was good. He regarded virtue as the common property of himself and others, giving up his own way to follow that of others, and delighting to learn from others to practise what was good. From the time when he ploughed and sowed, exercised the potter's art, and was a fisherman, to the time when he became emperor, he was continually learning from others. To take example from others to practise virtue, is to help them in the same practice. Therefore, there is no attribute of the superior man greater than his helping men to practise virtue.'

Thanks Yeung!
My teacher had tried to mention that this Martial Strategy came from something else but it was being lost in translation.

Here’s an article about “Ji” with the Shi Ji Cong Ren reference on page 31 http://public.gettysburg.edu/~dsommer/ji_self.pdf
“To set aside themselves and accord with others”

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Re: She Ji Cong Ren

Postby D_Glenn on Thu May 16, 2024 6:56 am

High level Xingyiquan uses Sheji Cong Ren, and the 4 methods that are inherent to its success.

懂劲的三个阶段 明劲、暗劲、化劲。

  1.明劲 要做到劲整形齐,舒展其力,使劲力通、透、穿、贴、松、悍、合、坚,成为抖绝劲、爆炸劲,一绝无有不绝。在平时练习基本拳法时,手磨外五行、肘磨内五行,进退如曲腿蹚泥,又如“泥犁行”,此谓明劲阶段。

  2.暗劲 在掌握明劲阶段的基础上,再进一步,使劲含而不露、蓄而不发,蓄意蓄劲、待而不发,以尽《山西六合心意拳》以静制动、后发制人之妙用。此谓“履薄冰”暗劲阶段。

  3.化劲 此谓《山西六合心意拳》的高级阶段。在掌握明劲、暗劲的基础上,在与人较技中,切记舍己从人,沾连粘随;处处虚无不着力,整体浑元不弹簧,日久功深达到人不知我,我独知人,一触即发、发则必中之高超之境。应敌犹如“水中游”,此谓化劲阶段。


Understanding the 3 stages (jieduan) of Ming Jin, An JIn, and Hua Jin.


1 - Ming (Clear to see) Jin - The strength and form must be strong, precise, and clear. Extend outward with force. When putting out force it must pass through, penetrate, pierce, connect, be pliant, ferocious, round, firm, have a shaking cutting strength, and deliver explosive force. Practice and drill the hand techniques developing the external 5-Elements and the elbows to develop the internal 5-Elements. Advancing and retreating with bent legs as if wading through mud (tang ni) like "walking while plowing through mud". This is the stage of Ming JIn.

2- An (hidden) JIn - You must have already grasped and have a strong foundation in the Mingjin stage then you can start on the second stage. Now when using strength you contain it and don't reveal it on the outside. Store up (xu) but don't emit (fa). Deliberately store up your Jin. The power to 'fa' emit is held back but not released, to the opponent this feels very powerful and strange and then you can emit. This is called "Treading on thin Ice". This is the stage of Anjin.

3- Hua (transforming) Jin - This is considered the highest stage of practice. You must have already grasped the stages of Mingjin and Anjin and have a very strong foundation in them. You should have a lot of experience in fighting as you must know that this stage is 'Sheji Cong Ren' [same as the Taijiquan thread] Give up yourself and comply with the opponent. Use 'Zhan, Lian, Nian, and Sui' (sticky, link, adhering, and complying). Everywhere you need to be empty and not exerting strength. The whole body must be blending and smooth (hunyuan) and not starting and stopping. The skill of 'The opponent does not know me, I alone know the opponent.' At any time, place, or moment you can emit (fa) but only emitting force at the precise moment. This is the Hua Jing stage.
One part moves, every part moves; One part stops, every part stops.

YSB Internal Chinese Martial Arts Youtube
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