D_Glenn wrote:Thanks for the detailed reply. Yes it is the Abdominis. And they are involved in holding the Abdominal contents in. In Yin style Bagua we learn to use them in the same manner that yoga people perform Nauli Kriya - contracting only one half the abdomen inward. We, however, keep our abdomen pressed out, so that when only one side is contracting it turns our Yao (aka Dantian) to that side. We learn to lock everything to that contraction and that’s what gives us our waist power. Yes other muscles are involved in the movement of one’s Yao, but the average Joe doesn’t need to put their intention upon gaining full control over all the other muscles involved.
I’m sure you’re already aware that the Transverse Abdominis are also involved in supporting the lumbar. Along with other muscles of course. The Wuji stance is how one first trains their body to get their torso comfortably into a secondary fixed position. One doesn’t have to figure out what muscles are doing what to move their body into and out of this secondary position. But one does need to have somatic control over the two halves of the Transverse Abdominis because you have to be in control of the turning of your Dantian throughout the movement between the two positions. The muscles that support and hold the spine upright are doing it through isometric contraction, yet they also have to move and change to differing positions of the spine. It’s the isometric power that you can learn to harness to Spring from one position to the other. Like drawing a bow and releasing it. Since one should already have some somatic control over the Transverse Abdominis to Turn the Dantian (this is called Zhuanhuan) then you can also have the sense of them when you quickly spring from one position to the other (called Yaozhedie - waist folding).
So that’s why in my school of Baguazhang my Chinese teachers only talk about the Transverse Abdominis Muscles. It’s too slippery of a slope to put Intention beyond only the primary muscle that you need control over. Also note that bodywork and Tuina is a major part of Baguazhang, which requires intimate knowledge of anatomy but through touch and feel only. Like an Osteopat, Chiropractor or massage therapist. So my grand teacher was fully aware of the abdominal muscles and had their own names for them. So in this case it is just a simple matter of translating one to one.
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twocircles13 wrote:
I agree with the statement, " Yes other muscles are involved in the movement of one’s Yao, but the average Joe doesn’t need to put their intention upon gaining full control over all the other muscles involved.“ One of the worst things one can ever do to an athlete is get them thinking about their anatomy, especially labels, and biomechanics. That is why we use analogy, visualization, and kinesthetic awareness when we try to teach skills.
twocircles13 wrote:I agree with the statement, " Yes other muscles are involved in the movement of one’s Yao, but the average Joe doesn’t need to put their intention upon gaining full control over all the other muscles involved.“ One of the worst things one can ever do to an athlete is get them thinking about their anatomy, especially labels, and biomechanics. That is why we use analogy, visualization, and kinesthetic awareness when we try to teach skills.
Doc Stier wrote:twocircles13 wrote:I agree with the statement, " Yes other muscles are involved in the movement of one’s Yao, but the average Joe doesn’t need to put their intention upon gaining full control over all the other muscles involved.“ One of the worst things one can ever do to an athlete is get them thinking about their anatomy, especially labels, and biomechanics. That is why we use analogy, visualization, and kinesthetic awareness when we try to teach skills.
Agreed. Quite so indeed. That's a fac, jack.
twocircles13 wrote:Your use of isometrics to train this movement is interesting. Isometrics tend to train strength in a relatively narrow band of muscular range of motion, but their ability to train speed is highly debated and not yet resolved, AFAIK. Do you use isometrics at different stages of the muscle contraction length?
D_Glenn wrote:I think that Internal martial arts don’t have to continually be mistaught or shrouded in mystery by perpetually discussing them like Master Po talking down to Kwai Chang in riddles and platitudes.
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origami_itto wrote:Do you ever feel like the focus on this has lead to over emphasizing movement in the lower back?
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