Turn your head back

[GrahamB]

"One root, 10,000 endings".

The one wrestling move "arm drag" can have many applications:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OTmtT9Y ... N&index=10



Different set ups create different applications.

(Arm drag is my favourite application of Repulse Monkey)

[Appledog]

It is silly to talk of application in the Bejing form
It is not a fighting form and barley a tai chi form

A wizard should know better.

[wayne hansen]

Plenty of arm drags in tai chi but repulse monkey is not one of them

[Steve James]

Personally, I like the idea that any tcc "form" (shi) I do can be a strike, a grab/grapple, or a throw. Afa strikes, there are types (for ex., push, punch, poke), methods (like a stick or a whip), and different targets. Imo, that's why a shuai jiao application can be derived or included in a tcc form. Yang Jwing Ming shows a qinna application for every tcc movement. Otoh, the same movements can be anti-qinna.

Anyway, afa the rear arm going back in RM, I was taught that the strongest position for the arm will be centered and connected to the body/waist. So, the farther it moves away from the center, the weaker it becomes. Keeping it centered also allows the body to move the arm, and not the other way around. I agree with origami-itto that the hand can go to the limit of peripheral vision, but you'd still have to turn the head to keep it there.

It's easy to test that principle. And, the easy way to fix the fault would be to simply turn the waist.

[johnwang]

Plenty of arm drags in tai chi but repulse monkey is not one of them

Could you explain where those arms drag are in the Taiji form?

[wayne hansen]

Rollback and carry tiger for two
So many in the San shou forms

[Steve James]

Plenty of arm drags in tai chi but repulse monkey is not one of them

Could you explain where those arms drag are in the Taiji form?

Ah, John, where would you incorporate an arm drag in your tcc?

Imo, the question is why you're dragging the arm in the first place. For ex., in phs, if the goal is to pull the opponent off balance, that's one thing. Arm drags in western wrestling are done, let's say, to take the opponent's back. For example;

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/shorts/gHIv12TdinM[/youtube]

Now, is there any movement in the tcc form that 'sorta' looks like that? I can think of one.

[johnwang]

Ah, John, where would you incorporate an arm drag in your tcc?

To me, "arm drag" is different from "LU - pull back".

1. pull back - pull both arms at the same time.
2. arm drag - It's a 2 steps motion. You pull the wrist fist; you then pull the elbow afterward. The goal is to change from the front door position into the side door position (or the other way around).

I'm not sure I can find a move in Taiji form that meet the "arm drag" requirements.

Here is "arm drag" and counter. You can see it's 2 steps process - You pull the wrist fist; you then pull the elbow afterward. He changes from the front door position into the side door position (so he can move behind his opponent, or avoid his opponent's back hand punch).

[Giles]

Plenty of arm drags in tai chi but repulse monkey is not one of them

Could you explain where those arms drag are in the Taiji form?

Among other things, it's one extremely effective application of Cloud Hands. But it will only work against a strong and resisting opponent if you make sure not to use both your hands at the same time to drag the opponent's arm. It's more like passing a baton from one runner's hand to the other. Neither of your hands should cross your own center line; using both your hands on the arm is immediately double weighted. Done properly, the opponent doesn't even feel he's being 'dragged', more like he's falling momentarily, so it's harder to resist and counter. You get his side or back without giving him any orientation through your own body.
Yeah, I could make a video...

[Steve James]

Here is "arm drag" and counter. You can see it's 2 steps process

Sure. It looks like 'pull down' (tsai/cai) or lu into Slant Flying.

[origami_itto]

Here is "arm drag" and counter. You can see it's 2 steps process

Sure. It looks like 'pull down' (tsai/cai) or lu into Slant Flying.

Wu family writings are very clear about roll back and press being used together or being pointless.

[Appledog]

Here, and there.. then, from there, to here. Back and forth, back and forth... Thank you Johnwang. After all of this I have come to a sudden insight.

It made me think of windwalker. But only for a moment ;0) don;t want to give the old guy too much credit!

[johnwang]

Wu family writings are very clear about roll back and press being used together or being pointless.

At 1.12 - 1.16, he did "Lu - pull back" without "Ji - press forward".

At 1.40 and 1.47, the leg skill is added into the Taiji push hand.

[wayne hansen]

It takes a little understanding to know what Wu means
There is no movement in tai chi that doesn’t contain roll back
Rollback without press is an opportunity lost
Press without rollback is dumb force

[johnwang]

It takes a little understanding to know what Wu means
There is no movement in tai chi that doesn’t contain roll back
Rollback without press is an opportunity lost
Press without rollback is dumb force

You don't know which direction that your opponent's body want to move.

If your opponent wants to move

- forward, you help him to move forward (Lu - pull back).
- backward, you help him to move backward (Ji - press forward).