Bob wrote:Primarily I could not find a sense of flow and relaxation in it, felt stiff, more like a moving isometric exercise, saw no tangible way to develop fa jin expression and I learned alternative ways to develop the shen fa via the bajiquan and taijiquan I started to learn in the Wu Tan system of Liu Yunqiao
Bob wrote:In Jou's lectures he kept insisting that he had found the "Key" to the ancient classics which opened the "door" to the real essence of taijiquan or if you wish, genuine taijiquan. My personal understanding was he thought everything else was a detour and waste of time if one was trying to attain the true internal art of taijiquan.
"There is a Master Key to Tai-Chi Chuan...The Master Key defines the art of Tai-Chi Chuan...without the Master Key, we should not call our art "Tai-Chi Chuan.
"In the Tang Dynasty, a hermit named Hsu San-Ping is said to have practiced a martial art similar to Tai-Chi Chuan "with the eight trigrams in the arms and five elements under the feet."...early statements of the Master Key to Tai-Chi Chuan.
"In the fourteenth century, Chang San Feng...wrote a treatise called The Theory of Tai-Chi Chuan. At the end of the work he emphasizes the importance of thirteen postures, which corresponded to the eight trigrams of the I Ching and the five elements. These concepts can be considered the Master Key to Tai-Chi Chuan.
"I might say initially "the with trigrams in the arms" means that your hands move in unison, and your movements match perfectly those of your opponent; the "fine elements under the feet" means to be able to step forward or back, to turn left or right, while remaining poised at the centre...
"If you want to understand the eight trigrams in the arms...you must practice the Chan Ssu Chin, which I have described in chapter three... If you want to understand the Chan Ssu Chin, you must understand the Tai-Chi Diagram, discussed in chapter two... First, you must learn not to move your arms independently of your body...The arms must move around the centre as the earth orbits around the sun. Study this by tracing the Tai-Chi Diagram with each hand singly...Each hand manifests all eight trigrams as it passes around the circle, like the monthly cycle of the moon from new to full and back again.
"Second, all parts of the body must exhibit revolution similar to the rotation of the earth on its own axis, which, when added to the circularity of orbit, results in a spiralling motion through space. Study the Chan Ssu Chin exercise with both hands matching one another, like the sun and the moon...Third, your two hands must match one another in the solo form in preparation for being able to match the energy of the partner."
charles wrote:For the sake of discussion, Jou, in the preface to the fourth edition of his book The Tao of Tai-Chi Chuan, states the following:
...
charles wrote:Taking all of that together, conceptually, the Master Key is pretty straightforward. It is in the implementation that everything goes to hell.
charles wrote:Bob wrote:In Jou's lectures he kept insisting that he had found the "Key" to the ancient classics which opened the "door" to the real essence of taijiquan or if you wish, genuine taijiquan. My personal understanding was he thought everything else was a detour and waste of time if one was trying to attain the true internal art of taijiquan.
For the sake of discussion, Jou, in the preface to the fourth edition of his book The Tao of Tai-Chi Chuan, states the following:"There is a Master Key to Tai-Chi Chuan...The Master Key defines the art of Tai-Chi Chuan...without the Master Key, we should not call our art "Tai-Chi Chuan.
"In the Tang Dynasty, a hermit named Hsu San-Ping is said to have practiced a martial art similar to Tai-Chi Chuan "with the eight trigrams in the arms and five elements under the feet."...early statements of the Master Key to Tai-Chi Chuan.
"In the fourteenth century, Chang San Feng...wrote a treatise called The Theory of Tai-Chi Chuan. At the end of the work he emphasizes the importance of thirteen postures, which corresponded to the eight trigrams of the I Ching and the five elements. These concepts can be considered the Master Key to Tai-Chi Chuan.
"I might say initially "the with trigrams in the arms" means that your hands move in unison, and your movements match perfectly those of your opponent; the "fine elements under the feet" means to be able to step forward or back, to turn left or right, while remaining poised at the centre...
"If you want to understand the eight trigrams in the arms...you must practice the Chan Ssu Chin, which I have described in chapter three... If you want to understand the Chan Ssu Chin, you must understand the Tai-Chi Diagram, discussed in chapter two... First, you must learn not to move your arms independently of your body...The arms must move around the centre as the earth orbits around the sun. Study this by tracing the Tai-Chi Diagram with each hand singly...Each hand manifests all eight trigrams as it passes around the circle, like the monthly cycle of the moon from new to full and back again.
"Second, all parts of the body must exhibit revolution similar to the rotation of the earth on its own axis, which, when added to the circularity of orbit, results in a spiralling motion through space. Study the Chan Ssu Chin exercise with both hands matching one another, like the sun and the moon...Third, your two hands must match one another in the solo form in preparation for being able to match the energy of the partner."
In chapter two, he states, "The eight trigrams represent the eight basic postures of Tai-Chi Chuan, also called the Eight Gates or Pa-Men: ward off or Peng, roll-back or Lu, press or Chi, push or An, pull-down or Tsai, split or Lieh, elbow or Chou, and shoulder-strike or Kao.
Taking all of that together, conceptually, the Master Key is pretty straightforward. It is in the implementation that everything goes to hell.
windwalker wrote:Read his work long ago.
From what I remember of it,
wouldn’t agree with much of it now.
The historical monk he mentioned. Any record of him fighting with anybody having to use it
charles wrote:No idea. Never heard of the monk outside of Jou's mention of him. I place little importance on what Jou wrote and even less on what he practiced.
windwalker wrote:found his work interesting at the time,,,,talking of different keys to opening doors ect.
His work a part of taiji development in the west
Have a different perspective now from which to view it through, speaking from.
Not meant as a judgment or recommendation, a small part of my own path..
windwalker wrote:@ Appledog
your quote of my post is confused....as to who you'er quoting...Me or Charles..
As to Jou Tsung Hwa's work...you denigrate Americans,
while holding him up as an example to follow....
What would be the example he presented.
Writing ?
Personality?
Was it fighting i.e. Taiji usage in combat?
windwalker wrote:@ Appledog
your quote of my post is confused....as to who you'er quoting...Me or Charles..
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