the rum soaked fist: internal martial arts forum

origami_itto wrote:So this leads me to several questions...

First, do you practice/teach single postures, or just the form?

This is a good point. If you train both solo form (on one side) and sole drills (on both sides), since form is used for recording information, it doesn't matter whether form contains both sides training or not, your solo drills training can make that balance.

The question is "What if one only trains form without drills training?"

johnwang wrote:

origami_itto wrote:So this leads me to several questions...

First, do you practice/teach single postures, or just the form?

This is a good point. If you train both solo form (on one side) and sole drills (on both sides), since form is used for recording information, it doesn't matter whether form contains both sides training or not, your solo drills training can make that balance.

The question is "What if one only trains form without drills training?"

I don't believe the taijiquan forms I study are simply for recording information. They are for cultivating particular qualities.

A single movement/posture can't give you the same benefit in my ignorant opinion.

A single movement drill on both sides is good for building balance, strength, and coordination. Familiarity with a posture. That way when you pass through that posture in the form it has more content and meaning for you, and that builds through the postures strung together.

The form, or string of postures.... I don't even want to try to define it or limit it to descriptions. They are not all created equal.

johnwang wrote:

windwalker wrote:No right or left, front or back, up or down ...all is "taiji"

The 108 moves Yang Taiji only has right outside crescent kick toward the end of the form. If you train solo form only without training drills, you will never be able to train left leg outside crescent kick.

My question is simple. Why do you want to train the outside crescent on your right leg, but not on your left leg?

The outside crescent kick can be used to escape your opponent's leg attack. When you have right leg forward, if your opponent kick/sweep your leading right leg, your right leg outside crescent kick can escape out of that attack. My simple question is what if you have your left leg forward when your opponent attacks your left leg?

donno, its not part of the way I train nor how I learned to practice..
In China the practice was single movements,,,feeling how they'er used and why...
Once a certain level was achieved the next movement was added

As a group all would follow the master, leading what we called the formal exercise ie form...
taking some 45min to an hour or more...The time, tempo of the practice thought to build certain qualities
that took time to manifest. Usually 20 min is said to be enough to allow the "qi" to circulate full cycle among other things

“Always keep your qi round, which is actually a kind of resultant force, and seek your own resultant force to be zero. The body is balanced in all directions, there is no collision, obstacle, or involvement, and it is flexible in all aspects.

try to get rid of the idea of "opponent"

for most this gets in the way of the practice...

As mentioned many different ways to practice

windwalker wrote:try to get rid of the idea of "opponent"

for most this gets in the way of the practice...

Without "opponent", the terms opportunity, angle, timing will have no meaning. Without "opponent", CMA can turn into dancing.

johnwang wrote:

windwalker wrote:try to get rid of the idea of "opponent"

for most this gets in the way of the practice...

Without "opponent", the term opportunity, angle, timing will have no meaning.

Wu wei (無為)

there is a difference between practice and usage...


practice to understand "relationships" the things you've mentioned

usage confirming the understanding, correcting as needed

johnwang wrote:

windwalker wrote:try to get rid of the idea of "opponent"

for most this gets in the way of the practice...

Without "opponent", the terms opportunity, angle, timing will have no meaning. Without "opponent", CMA can turn into dancing.

Who is the one talking about practicing on both sides

Get caught between a wave and rock wall,,neither one has the idea of "opponent" see what happens...



"Shiva's role is to destroy the universe in order to re-create it. "


Aligns with Chinese thought five elements theory

windwalker wrote:Wu wei (無為)

there is a difference between practice and usage...


practice to understand "relationships" the things you've mentioned

usage confirming the understanding, correcting as needed

You still have not answered my simple question. Why do you just want to train right leg outside crescent kick without training left leg outside crescent kick?

johnwang wrote:You still have not answered my simple question.
Why do you just want to train right leg outside crescent kick without training left leg outside crescent kick?

donno, why you train as you do,,,

Have answered, you don't seem to be understanding...

Different methods train differently reflections of the theory they'er based on...

windwalker wrote:donno, why you train as you do,,,

Have answered, you don't seem to be understanding...

Different methods train differently reflections of the theory they'er based on...

I don't understand your logic. If you train your Taiji form 10,000 times, you will train your right leg outside crescent kick 10,000 time. But you will train your left leg outside crescent kick 0 times. Why is this good for you?

johnwang wrote:

windwalker wrote:donno, why you train as you do,,,

Have answered, you don't seem to be understanding...

Different methods train differently reflections of the theory they'er based on...

I don't understand your logic. If you train your Taiji form 10,000 times, you will train your right leg outside crescent kick 10,000 time. But you will train your left leg outside crescent kick 0 times. Why is this good for you?

who says my form or any other taiji form has or needs a crescent kick..


I'm done....maybe one of the others can comment on "their" practice

later

windwalker wrote: who says my form or any other taiji form has or needs a crescent kick..

It's no fun in discussion that you are not willing to give straight forward honest answer. If you said, "My Taiji form doesn't have outside crescent kick, so your issue doesn't concern me". That will be a straight forward honest answer.

But we are discussing the Yang 108 moves long form, not Chen Taiji form, or your Taiji form. The right leg outside crescent kick does exist in the 108 moves Yang long form.

Are you saying that the Yang Taiji form creator should not add outside crescent kick into the Taiji form that he had created?

At 22.09.



At 21.06.



At 5.36.

Bao wrote:
We've had this discussion before. And I'll just repeat what I've already said: It's pointless to practice a mirror-version of a form.

First: You will always be right-handed or left-handed, your body is not even. You can never use both of your sides equally good.

Second: In all IMA, all forms are already balanced and utilize both sides of the body equally much. How come? Because you always use all of your body coordinated together as a whole. If you do something with the right side of the body, you are still using your left side just as much as the right side.

If you don't understand this it means that you don't understand whole body coordination.

Totally agree,,,

wayne hansen wrote:

It is not important to balance the postures left and right but to be balanced in each posture
If you think they need to be balanced left and right I hope you are putting a second steering wheel in your car and driving equally on both sides of the road in both forward and reverse

yep,,,very nicely said

the original post

johnwang wrote:After you have done your form, you just do your form on the other side. Your form may become twice as long, but you can train both sides equally.

Whoever had created this form in the following video had "both sides balance" in his mind. The form creator might create a short form. Since he included both sides, a short form turned into a regular size form.

- sequence 1 (east).
- different side sequence 1 (west).
- sequence 2 (east).
- different side sequence 2 (west).

A 2 sequences form then turn into a 4 sequences form. It's an excellent way to create a balanced form.

What's your thought on this?

follow on post

johnnwang wrote:

It's no fun in discussion that you are not willing to give straight forward honest answer. If you said, "My Taiji form doesn't have outside crescent kick, so your issue doesn't concern me". That will be a straight forward honest answer.

But we are discussing the Yang 108 moves long form, not Chen Taiji form, or your Taiji form. The right leg outside crescent kick does exist in the 108 moves Yang long form.

Are you saying that the Yang Taiji form creator should not add outside crescent kick into the Taiji form that he had created?

wasn't aware that it was limited to "Yang" style form...

Is your form "yang " style. ?

It doesn't appear to be so..could be wrong

That’s why I like practicing grand master chocks fighting form it has a left cresent kick
In grandmaster chocks kicking set it is done repeatedly left and right

wayne hansen wrote:That’s why I like practicing grand master chocks fighting form it has a left cresent kick
In grandmaster chocks kicking set it is done repeatedly left and right

If one trains drill besides form, he won't have this unbalance issue.