Why thé death of master yang Cheng fu mysterious?

[Steve James]

Wasn’t that the same Li that YCF made to lose hold of his sword rather quickly during a fencing bout ?

Probably not. Li JInglin taught Chen Weiming (who was previously Sun Lutang's student) who wrote the first tcc sword book. There are probably stories of YCF breaking Li Shuwen's spear.

[Bob]

Wasn’t that the same Li that YCF made to lose hold of his sword rather quickly during a fencing bout ?

Probably not. Li JInglin taught Chen Weiming (who was previously Sun Lutang's student) who wrote the first tcc sword book. There are probably stories of YCF breaking Li Shuwen's spear.

Actually, according to the forward in Chen Weiming's sword book, Warlord Li Jinglin's sword was a Wudang sword form and when he visited Shanghai he stopped by Chen Weiming's school and they compared his sword practice to the Yang sword practice of Chen Weiming. According to Chen Weiming they were almost identical and the General gave Chen Weiming a calligraphy piece (which is illustrated by picture in his book).

It was generally believed that General Li Jinglin's wudang sword was taught to him by Song Weiyi but this is not solidly documented

Can't recall the origin and transmission lineage of the Yang Taijiquan sword

[origami_itto]

Can't recall the origin and transmission lineage of the Yang Taijiquan sword

Don't know exactly, but what's said is they just took the Wudang sword and called it Taijiquan Sword. It was tacked on pretty late either by Yang Chien Hu or Yang Cheng Fu.

Yang Luchan was only interested in the spear as far as I know.

[wayne hansen]

Li was king of the sword
Both Yangs sword and knife came from the same place due to their similar sequence
The bigger mystery is where did Wu’s weapons come from certainaly not from the Yangs

[Bob]

Li was king of the sword
Both Yangs sword and knife came from the same place due to their similar sequence
The bigger mystery is where did Wu’s weapons come from certainaly not from the Yangs

I don't know much about the Wu style taijiquan system (although I once did a weekend seminar with Wen Meiyu in Columbus, Ohio) but Ma Yuehliang teaches spear, dao and sword forms and his wife's father founded the Wu style taijiquan version

[wayne hansen]

His wife does a beautiful version of the spear
The big question is where did Huangs weapons come from

[edededed]

Wasn’t that the same Li that YCF made to lose hold of his sword rather quickly during a fencing bout ?

Li was a warlord also a sword master.

My teacher told me that he knew 2 secretes in Chinese history.

1. The truth of YCF's death. Li won't allow Yang to teach in public.
2. 汪精卫 Wang Jingwei was a double spy and was not a traitor. The assassin order to Wang was to hurt him and not to kill him. Wang was 1 of the "4 good looking guys" in modern Chinese history.

Unfortunately, governments decide on "official" histories, irrespective of the truth.

Wang Jingwei - very interesting - if he indeed was a double spy and not a traitor, he may feel very unhappy in the afterlife as his legacy has basically become synonymous with "traitor" to most people. Actually, his short-lived government was connected to Wu style taijiquan people via Chu Minyi (who was Minister of Foreign Affairs). Chu at least seemed to be a good, honorable person, and he would have known Wang well as his brother-in-law... but in the end sadly was executed.

Who were the other 3 of the "4 good looking guys" in modern Chinese history? (I am guessing that Mao Zedong was not one of them...)

[Trick]

Wasn’t that the same Li that YCF made to lose hold of his sword rather quickly during a fencing bout ?

Li was a warlord also a sword master.



1. Li won't allow Yang to teach in public

So what to make out of the story about your teacher and Li walking in the park watching YCF teaching ?

That Li was a sword master is well known, however I read somewhere(Bob Smith book ?) that he actually lost a fencing “match” to YCF, maybe that’s why he didn’t like YCF ?

[Trick]

The Duel -

. When Master Chengfu visited the Central Martial Arts Organization (CMAO) of Nanjing in 1928, he had a friendly sword bout with Mr. Li Jinglin, the Deputy Chairman of the CMAO. Li had excellent sword skills and his movements would dazzle the opponent’s eyes. People called Li the "Celestial Sword". At the very beginning of the bout, when Chengfu moved his sword to touch Li’s sword, Li’s sword suddenly flew away from Li’s hand.

https://discuss.yangfamilytaichi.com/vi ... php?t=4263

[Steve James]

The Duel -

. When Master Chengfu visited the Central Martial Arts Organization (CMAO) of Nanjing in 1928, he had a friendly sword bout with Mr. Li Jinglin, the Deputy Chairman of the CMAO. Li had excellent sword skills and his movements would dazzle the opponent’s eyes. People called Li the "Celestial Sword". At the very beginning of the bout, when Chengfu moved his sword to touch Li’s sword, Li’s sword suddenly flew away from Li’s hand.

https://discuss.yangfamilytaichi.com/vi ... php?t=4263

It should probably be noted that the entire purpose of that article (and stories) was to show that Yang tcc was an effective martial art. There are no examples given of Yang tcc practitioners losing to any of the greatest martial artists of their era. Well, there aren't many stories about the masters of other ma styles losing to tcc masters, either. In fact, it's the opposite; to this day.

That said, I think YCF had to be a fantastic martial artist because he was so big. It's like people who underestimate Sammo Hung. There are lots of stories about YCF's agility. But, even if all the legends are true, I don't think it says anything about tcc.

The whole issue about YCF's relatively early death is that tcc is marketed as a health exercise. And, in fact, there are Asian and western studies that confirm its benefits. So, what happened with YCF required an explanation, just like Bruce Lee's death. I'd say the premise is faulty. It doesn't matter what anyone does, they can fall dead at any moment. Of course, that also makes it important to do as much as possible to live well.

Maybe YCF had a pre-existing condition or he ate and drank too much. Neither story makes any difference.

[Bob]

I think the likelihood of Li Jinglin and Yang Chengfu crossing swords, let alone Yang Chengfu defeating him, is very low.

From Chen Weiming Yang Jian book:

太極劍
附太極長拳
TAIJI SWORD
including TAIJI LONG BOXING
陳微明
by Chen Weiming
[1928]

[translation by Paul Brennan, Dec, 2012]

I had previously heard of General Li Fanchen [Jinglin], who is an expert in the sword art and had been taught by an exceptional man [Chen Shijun], when Sun Lutang happened to speak highly of him. Li came to Shanghai this year, so I went to see him. He is a brilliant and frank man, and was generous enough to teach me his two-person sparring method for the sword. Regarding its principles, it is entirely a matter of moving by way of the hips, and is no different from the listening energy in Taiji Boxing’s pushing hands, except for times when the swords are not sticking but are instead about a half inch apart, and so it is the authentic sword method of Wudang’s Taiji.

In Yang Chengfu’s curriculum, there are no standard two-person sparring exercises, so by obtaining this [supplementary training from Li Jinglin], the Taiji Sword would then be complete in terms of its function as well as its essence.

Once I have trained at it to the point of skillfulness, I will record it into a further book with which to supply the world. [Chen Weiming never produced such a book, presumably abandoning the idea when Li Jinglin’s two-person exercises were published in a book in 1931 by Huang Yuanxiu. Chen’s three Taiji books were each groundbreaking and he was perhaps not inclined to retread paths once others have taken them.]

– written by Chen Weiming, Jan, 1928

[GrahamB]

At that point in history I don't think anybody was actually fighting with a sword. It all sounds more like politics. What mattered was who was higher up in the Kuomintang. Li Jing Lin would out rank all of them.

Anyway, my money is on Chow Yun-Fat with the Green Destiny.

[Steve James]

Chen Weiming did write a Taiji sword book.
https://www.amazon.com/Taiji-Sword-Othe ... C69&sr=8-2

[Steve James]

True, no one was learning jian to fight in the 20th century. Most people weren't learning tcc to fight in the 20th century.

[johnwang]

Who were the other 3 of the "4 good looking guys" in modern Chinese history? (I am guessing that Mao Zedong was not one of them...)

https://baike.baidu.com/item/%E6%B0%91% ... B7/5317935

汪精卫



张学良



周恩来



梅兰芳