the rum soaked fist: internal martial arts forum

This is an example of standing passively to neutralize an incoming force as demonstrated but one needs to workout the difference between moving away and being pushed away. Moving away is an active action and being pushed away is a passive action. The link to the video as follows:

https://www.facebook.com/39716348706001 ... 972135127/

The concept of a passive stance is similar to the concept of sinking but it gets complicated as one lower the stance or put most of the body weight in one leg, etc.

This is basic to the techniques of torso led footwork and passive stepping,etc.

Passive bystanders I have heard of

That is not passive. That's following force while actively keeping the integrity of the centerline/zhong ding.

Bao wrote:That is not passive. That's following force while actively keeping the integrity of the centerline/zhong ding.

Agreed.

I think the distinction that you, Yeung, are making isn't an accurate one. If someone falls on you, as in your video clip, the passive response is to fall over. Active responses involve staying on your feet by doing something. That something can be stepping, can be turning, can be pushing back, etc., but anything other than falling over is an "active", learned response.

As an aside, the person "pushing" in the video is purposely falling. He actively does something so that he doesn't fall on his face: he steps.

I don't quite get the point of the clip
Guy out of balance reaches to push over old lady who turns shoulder he then stumbles forward

I assume the point is to practice a little rollback as if the "push" were unexpected. You are standing on a train platform waiting in line and suddenly receive an accidental (or on purpose) incoming push. You are "passive" because you weren't doing anything, but you roll the force.

Yeung, the term "passive" is probably what throws all of us off. You aren't actually "passive" and you shouldn't be, but I think by "passive" you mean "standing around normally, not doing anything in particular, not meditating/doing qigong/doing martial arts." In that sense, I sort of follow you if that's what you mean.

charles wrote:As an aside, the person "pushing" in the video is purposely falling. He actively does something so that he doesn't fall on his face: he steps.

If it's the concept demonstration some artificiality is fine as long as there's no claim that it's an imitation of a real attack.

HotSoup wrote:If it's the concept demonstration some artificiality is fine as long as there's no claim that it's an imitation of a real attack.

It appears to be a simple exercise. Consequently, it probably makes sense not to over-analyze it. One person applies a force, the other turns so that the incoming force glances past. My point was simply that each is doing something specific, neither is being passive.

Yeung wrote:one needs to workout the difference between moving away and being pushed away.

At the moment of impact she was passive and he was active. I have practiced this. It's more difficult to be passive(still) when you can see the push coming. I like how she prepared her stance to receive the push. It gave her ample time too actively use the force

Thank you for your observations and comments, actually this a test of 4 different responses of passive passive, passive active, active passive, and active active. There are difficulties in visualize them, and the results are very much depended on the subject's verbal reports. Maybe EMG and slow motion video software will show up some differences.