the rum soaked fist: internal martial arts forum

Ok yup not a tai chi player but... (what energy is this btw hahaha)

I'm not seeing what you're seeing.. The applications I learned are totally different. If a normal knee strike can be interpreted as Jinji Duli then all of any MA could be Taijiquan...

In wrestling, Taiji "golden rooster stands on one leg" can be to use your knee to lift your opponent's body (below upper leg) to be off the ground. This is one of David C. K. Lin's best techniques. At his age of 71, he can still use this move to lift his 300 lb student to be off the ground. I asked him about the secret on this. He said it's to find the balance point on your single leg. The force is not to lift the knee but lean body in one direction and find that balance point. Before you do that, first you have to manage to let your opponent's body to sit on your upper leg as a "bench".

I was told it's knee strike and palm strike (what it most looks like outwardly AFAIK), so yeah he's not doing that, but life's not perfect so. Plus tai chi videos mostly are horrifyingly bad in what they try to show (no wonder RSF is never happy with them), so this seems better. As with all the moves we discuss, no doubt people have much more interesting applications, though.

all of any MA could be Taijiquan

this is half-jokingly my point. I mean a push down is a push down. A pull down is a pull down. An elbow is an elbow. Maybe the fighter (Jones is brilliant so I'm not criticizing him specifically) doesn't have the 4 oz attributes we expect, but taijiquan doesn't seem to be famous for having applications that other MA don't have, right.

I don't know if its rooster standing on one leg but the first clip is interesting in that it does appear to put 'the structure' to good use in similar fashion how even beginner taichi players would need to learn anyway. Looks like he pivots on one side of the foot that he has his weight using the foot and hips then switches weight goes, empty and then knees the guy. You can tell that the opponent in the first clip is slightly but subtly baffled, like doesn't know how to react.

Dunno about second clip looks like standard muay thai knee

that wrestling application looks cool. is it hard to do?

I'll just leave this here though. Imagine one of her arms is down (maybe for balance, maybe for cai) and this looks more classic form-like.

Imagine if we told the second woman that this is "women's self defense" and not "yoga". I'm sure she has no clue. Imagine what the left woman might think if we showed her golden rooster. She would probably be like "oh ok yeah".

Dunno about second clip looks like standard muay thai knee

this is all a little tongue-in-cheek. Jones never studied tai chi AFAIK.

everything wrote:that wrestling application looks cool. is it hard to do?

When your opponent's weight is on your right upper leg and you stand on your left leg, you need to lean to your left so your and your opponent's body can all be balanced on your left leg. It's easy to do this on a 150 lb opponent. It's hard to do this on a 300 lb opponent.

johnwang wrote:

everything wrote:that wrestling application looks cool. is it hard to do?

When your opponent's weight is on your right upper leg and you stand on your left leg, you need to lean to your left so your and your opponent's body can all be balanced on your left leg. It's easy to do this on a 150 lb opponent. It's hard to do this on a 300 lb opponent.

this seems very good (and everything is hard on a 300 lb opponent!) but maybe it doesn't have the idealistic "4 oz" (which is ok with me). is this timing based to make it easier on the heavier opponent, though?

everything wrote:this seems very good (and everything is hard on a 300 lb opponent!) but maybe it doesn't have the idealistic "4 oz" (which is ok with me). is this timing based to make it easier on the heavier opponent, though?

It's not the timing but the balance point. You can train this by using your heavy bag. It can increase your "strong rooting" big time.

double legs rooting < single leg rooting < single leg rooting + weight

thanks. I think I could learn it in person (on someone of my same weight), but it's slightly hard to follow the words and video.

I thought for sure everyone would say golden rooster is palm/knee strike, but I'm starting to learn not to be surprised by many application intepretations/learnings.

on another tangent, if you look at the Jones elbow thread I made, if you do the shoulder crank with the left arm, then do golden rooster with the right arm and knee, it should be an interesting application.

Hello, I'd like to maintain a 'cool post count' of 108 posts. This particular post has gone beyond that number and has therefore expired.

I'm sorry if you were looking for some old information but I'll do my best to answer you if you send me a DM with a question in it.

peng, lu, ji, an, cai, lie, zhou, kao are considered to be 8 "energies". ba fa. ba jin. etc. which is a bit ambiguous if we are talking about "energy" in the sense of qi flow that can feel electrical or like fluid, which is different (and I agree with you about this feeling). too many ambiguous words in both Chinese and English.

Hello, I'd like to maintain a 'cool post count' of 108 posts. This particular post has gone beyond that number and has therefore expired.

I'm sorry if you were looking for some old information but I'll do my best to answer you if you send me a DM with a question in it.

Appledog wrote:When you say "jing" you are no longer referring to the actual physical move but a feeling or result of training that move. So while you mention 'zhou' as an elbow strike, it has nothing to do with taiji's 'zhou jing', which is the result of training zhou the technique in the tai chi form and in tai chi push hands.

So, "jin" is what you feel as a result of practicing physical techniques from forms and push hands, but isn't an elbow strike? One common use of the elbow, "zhou", is to strike. If it is not being used for that purpose, what is being trained regarding the elbow in push hands and forms? The purpose of practicing techniques in forms and push hands is so one can feel "jin" that has little or no practical use-on-opponent use?

I don't understand why it can't be a throw, knee, or whatever as long as it works and it's not too off base.