the rum soaked fist: internal martial arts forum

MaartenSFS wrote:In the Lv video there's nothing to test, though. He just stands there and waits. Perhaps if he were to try to tackle you at full speed, that would be a better test, almost like a bull fight..

If you looked carefully, you will realize that the pull was "entering" (you have to begin somewhere ) but that was the ploy to push backward, sweep but since the opponent responded, it was good "strategy" (a relative term here) so no need to think ahead since the "feint" showed the other as, perhaps, not as skilfull. Everythiong is about changes, the abilty to apply change and be aware of it (changes(s)

MaartenSFS wrote:In the Lv video there's nothing to test, though. He just stands there and waits. Perhaps if he were to try to tackle you at full speed, that would be a better test, almost like a bull fight..

You assume your opponent will tackle you, so you respond to it. I like to attack my opponent, when he resists, I then take advantage on it. If your opponent applies Peng, it's not that easy to make your Lu successful. IMO, to against a weak opponent, a solo move may work. To against a strong opponent, you may need to apply combo.



My teacher liked to let his opponent to attack him first. May be you prefer this approach instead. When I started my long fist class in high school (I was 14), I asked my long fist teacher, "What will you do if I punch at your face?" My long fist teacher said, "punch me." I did. This move was exactly that he used to deal with my punch.

If my student asks me the same question, I will not let him to punch me first. Instead, I will punch him first. After these many years, I still don't like the training that If you do ..., I'll do ...

MaartenSFS wrote:What do you think are the most representative, effective and easy to understand/learn techniques in Taijiquan for Peng, Lv, Ji, An, Cai and Lie?

I'm surprised you ask this question. You say you studied TJQ full time for several years here in China, and also studied to some depth XYLHQ & XingYQ & Tongbeiquan and for many years also practiced Sanda. You are a disciple of a respected teacher, and you yourself already have students. You must already have some well thought throu answers to yours above question

I have some ideas, but I am far from the most experienced member of this forum and there may be ideas out there that I hadn't thought of. I really like John's idea of testing the Jins. I already have a testing sub-section in my art that I'd just need to add these to, so that works perfectly.. I had half an idea and combined with John's a complete idea is formed! Different perspectives can provide different answers.

My master loves to do that "shoulder elbow lock combo".

johnwang wrote:To against a strong opponent, you may need to apply combo.

If you go against someone strong, why try to force something on him like locking qinna?

Bao wrote:If you go against someone strong, why try to force something on him like locking qinna?

The joint locking used in SC is designed for a police officer to use on a criminal. In Taiwan, punch/kick are not allowed to be used by police officer in the street. The goal is to be able to put handcuff on a criminal while he is on the ground.

Against a big and heavy guy, I'll drag his arm and run in circle. I can borrow much more force from him that way. Sometime just trying to borrow partial arm resistance force may not be enough.

johnwang wrote:

Bao wrote:If you go against someone strong, why try to force something on him like locking qinna?

The joint locking used in SC is designed for a police officer to use on a criminal. In Taiwan, punch/kick are not allowed to be used by police officer in the street. The goal is to be able to put handcuff on a criminal while he is on the ground.

Against a big and heavy guy, I'll drag his arm and run in circle. I can borrow much more force from him that way. Sometime just trying to borrow partial arm resistance force may not be enough.

What if you are in a very tight space and cannot run around with him?

Bao wrote:What if you are in a very tight space and cannot run around with him?

- Step in.
- Separate his arms away from his head.
- Get him into a head lock.
- Take him down.
- Side mount on him.
- Squeeze his skull.
- ...

Hmm, which techniques map to 13 postures. Well, one of the postures (shi) is central equilibrium. That should map onto every application, no? Then there are the other aspects of the wu xing (forward, backward, left, right). One could argue that each of them could be an application, but any would include central equilibrium. But, what about the other eight shi --which are the ones on which the discussion focuses. Imo, the entirety could be seen as the vowels in a language. They're necessary to make words, but it's their combination and organization with themselves and the consonants that result in meaningful sentences.

Of course, if we get into the "peng" is all or peng in everything argument, then applications don't really matter. However, then peng can have a unique application. Otoh, if "peng" is described as "ward off slantingly upward," then an application is being described. That doesn't mean it's the only application.

I dunno. I think "kao" is a pretty clear description of its application, if kao means shoulder. The same for elbow, except ... it totally depends on how one understand "elbow." Split seems to be a concept that is easy to demonstrate. (You could use Raise Hands" or "Diagonal Flying" and others).

Anyway, if there's not an obvious application for the parts of the form, then work them out.

MaartenSFS wrote:

cloudz wrote:Why should I give a fuck about the mainland ?
The situation there doesn't make it "the truth", and doesn't justify you talking utter bollocks because it makes you fucking feel special.

get over yourself. arsehole

you do "sanda" like the rest of us, it's just pretty shit sanda. that's all
nob

WTF. Why should I give a fuck about you?? CMA are from China, in case you haven't noticed. Try removing the stick out of your arse. It may help clear your mind.

Get over myself? You're the one arguing Chinese semantics with someone that speaks Chinese and has been living in China and studying Gongfu for over ten years. You'd think that during that time I'd have learned the difference between Sanda and Sanshou, as the Chinese use the terms.. I didn't make this shit up.

You're the one that thinks the "meanings" make any difference. You think using different names makes fighting skills different, or that you are doing anything different to TCMA guys everywhere. You keep pitting "TCMA" vs. "Sanda".. You're deluded that's the problem you have, and all the semantic reinforcment you like to find in not doing the sport sanda system in China is redundant as fuck on this site. You think people here aren't doing TCMA and are doing "sport sanda" instead when they spar or fight, so you have constantly made a point of differentiating yourself... making yourself feel and "look" special, to people that don't know better. Because they've never fought either.

You have made these same suggesation in your comments for fucking years now, there are no dedicated fucking "Sanda" competitions here in the UK and no "Sanda" fucking gyms. We have TCMA schools who prepare people for whatever the fuck it's called fighting. Think you can handle that fuck face? Kuo Shu, sanda, lei tai, san shou. you really fucking think it matters do you the name we give fighting, public competiton or in house ?

Just because you're too chicken shit pussy to ACTUALLY FIGHT in a competition.
Stick to posing in your silk pyjamas master sifu dick.

Your ignorance is astounding. Whatever. I have never once said that Sanda is a bad art. It's just not what I do. Since I studied Sanda for about two years full-time, I'm pretty sure that I know the difference between it and what I do now... The arts are different, thus the skills are too. Perhaps you are confusing fighting skill in general with different skill sets within an art?

Silk pajamas? Please. I train in the clothes that I wear in my videos. I spar all the time. I don't have access to competitions. I'm not competitive enough to be interested in it, either. I've been living in near poverty in a developing country for over ten years here, dedicating myself to TCMA. You have no fucking clue how tough it's been.

I don't know what most people on this forum train. From most of the videos of CMA out there it is obvious that the main camps are not fighting, sucking at fighting and using Sanda to fill up holes in whatever art they're supposedly training. If I seem to look down on Sanda it's because Sanda is extremely common in China and TCMA are rare. I just get annoyed when people try to pass off their Sanda as something else. I don't think that I'm special, but I do feel like I am on the right path based on my experience and the other stuff I've seen out there. I fully admit that I still have a long way to go.

If I just wanted to learn how to fight I could have stayed in Holland. I came to China to study some unique fighting systems before they go extinct. It took me a long time to find what I was looking for and now I'm already 31 with a busted foot. Perhaps one day one of my students will prove that TCMA are just as effective as Sanda or MMA. My job is just getting it out of China.

I think Sanda has a great ruleset and it should be fully possible for virtually any TCMA to compete in that format, provided some techniques are omitted. The TCMA that I have seen and learned are quite different to the art of Sanda. I haven't seen your fighting, so I can't comment. You are incredibly rude, however, so fuck off.

blah blah blah, I will fuck off from your thread.

It's fucking boring bullshit anyway. I thought you met several amazing tai chi masters already. Ones we in the West would never recognize 'cos we never saw the real shit rare TCMA you did. Your super master who is the bees bollox and knows everything including Tai chi can't teach you basic shit like what you're asking??? Oh that rare now is it... You've come here and been rude for a long time now, keep talking your delusions to yourself because like that you'll never grow the pair to go and fight in Sanda competitons. Talking the walk will be all you are ever good for. Some TCMA people have more balls than you, that's all. You try and compensate by continuously making out you're (practically the only one) doing the real authentic traditional shit..

You think that bullshit is anything new, people on forums have seen and heard a version of the same shit a thousand times.

I never said that my master is the best or anything, only that he can use his art to fight and teach and is a great person. I can't compare to what's in the West, because I don't know. I've spent almost my entire adult life in China - haven't had enough money to even go home for the past six years. I can only comment on what I've seen on Youtube, pretty much.

The difference between my master and others masters is that he uses what he trains and most other Taijiquan masters that I've met in China can either only do Tuishou or they have turned Taijiquan into a grappling only art and add Sanda for striking and kicks. I have met one master that combined his Taiji with Sanda but still uses a lot of strikes and kicks from the Taiji system. I hope to train with him again, as he is a close friend of my master's. I met another master here in the north that combined Sanda with mantis and the mantis influence is very evident in his fighting. One of my master's Gongfu brothers combined his Xingyiquan with Sanda and it's obvious as well. In all cases the influence of both the TCMA and Sanda are easy to see. Only my master and the Xinyiliuhequan master fight in such a unique way that no Sanda influence is evident.

Steve James wrote:Hmm, which techniques map to 13 postures. Well, one of the postures (shi) is central equilibrium. That should map onto every application, no? Then there are the other aspects of the wu xing (forward, backward, left, right). One could argue that each of them could be an application, but any would include central equilibrium. But, what about the other eight shi --which are the ones on which the discussion focuses. Imo, the entirety could be seen as the vowels in a language. They're necessary to make words, but it's their combination and organization with themselves and the consonants that result in meaningful sentences.

Of course, if we get into the "peng" is all or peng in everything argument, then applications don't really matter. However, then peng can have a unique application. Otoh, if "peng" is described as "ward off slantingly upward," then an application is being described. That doesn't mean it's the only application.

I dunno. I think "kao" is a pretty clear description of its application, if kao means shoulder. The same for elbow, except ... it totally depends on how one understand "elbow." Split seems to be a concept that is easy to demonstrate. (You could use Raise Hands" or "Diagonal Flying" and others).

Anyway, if there's not an obvious application for the parts of the form, then work them out.

Yes Zhong Ding would seem to be the most important 'posture' to understand, from there everything would come natural. But how to get there to the natural state, probably through a lot of pulling and pushing ( also can be read as grabbing and striking )

Thanks for your thoughts, Steve James.

I think that what I am trying to get at is to restructure the Taijiquan that I've learned into something like Xingyiquan. Right now all I've done is taken out applications that I regularly use and put them into my Xinyiliuhequan and Xingyiquan. I currently have Twelve Core Postures (which includes techniques from those systems and several others), which in principle is like the Twelve Animal Forms of Xingyi, and Five Core Fists, which are akin to the Five Element Fists of Xingyiquan. Instead of a form, I've combined these and other effective techniques into a group of eighteen combination drills that can be mixed and matched, which I've just spent the past half year developing with the aid of a group of boxers and a student from India.

I'm now thinking to somehow incorporate Taiji's Thirteen Postures. I was brainstorming here, trying to fish for new ideas. Next week I'll be moving back to Guilin and I can work on it with my master (or not). He seems to like the idea.