A word about speed

[dspyrido]

I can drill my XingYi Bong Chuan for 2 miles non-stop, I can't even drill my non-jump kick for 1/2 mile. To get the same health benefit, the kick will be better than the punch. IMO, if you (general YOU) are not capable to do punches in full speed, your physical condition is pretty bad.

Have you tried weighted gloves or hand weights? That will make a difference to 5 element.

Also 5 element can be done crouched down and it will burn the legs.

A final touch is the weight vest but I find that lower (sunk), longer (strides & distance) & faster combined with weighted gloves is more than I can cope with.

Note: I am not saying don't do the kicking drill. Just another way to enhance 5 element.

[johnwang]

Have you tried weighted gloves or hand weights? That will make a difference to 5 element.

I have tried to punch with hand weight. I find out that too much weight and too fast speed just don't go together. I have hurt my elbow joints 3 times in my life. Don't want to make the same mistake again. I have done my share of "strike into the thin air". I don't think I will ever do that again if I can hit a solid object instead. To "strike into the thin air" just give me that "empty" feeling. The older I'm, the more I feel that way.

[Taste of Death]

Have you tried weighted gloves or hand weights? That will make a difference to 5 element.

I have tried to punch with hand weight. I find out that too much weight and too fast speed just don't go together. I have hurt my elbow joints 3 times in my life. Don't want to make the same mistake again. I have done my share of "strike into the thin air". I don't think I will ever do that again if I can hit a solid object instead. To "strike into the thin air" just give me that "empty" feeling. The older I'm, the more I feel that way.

Striking into thin air allows one to "keep the water in the bucket". Whatever is inside of you stays inside of you. Without "strike into thin air" your energy/essence/intent/chi/whatever the fuck you want to call it scatters. Keep it inside/internal. You should practice both.

[Bao]

Striking into thin air allows one to "keep the water in the bucket". Whatever is inside of you stays inside of you. Without "strike into thin air" your energy/essence/intent/chi/whatever the fuck you want to call it scatters. Keep it inside/internal. You should practice both.

Practicing movement and alignment in thin air is one thing. But if you strike with force/use strength striking, you really need some resistance, something to strike. Striking air only builds bad habits and gives you a false illusion about your striking power. Like JW, I have fxcked up my elbow. Though one time is enough for me. No, striking into thin air is completely useless, something I will never do again.

[johnwang]

striking into thin air is completely useless, something I will never do again.

To strike into the thin air with straight line punches with speed can really hurt the elbow joint in the long run. I know many TKD guys have knee joint problem during older age by doing too many side kick into the thin air.

[D_Glenn]

If someone is capable or has taken the proper time to learn how to use the Zhedie and Zhuanhuan movements to power all strikes then striking into the air is and never will be a problem.

The whole body becomes like fine machined gears that interlock so precisely that there is no gaps between the teeth. One gear moves, all gears move. One gear stops, all gears stop. Movement without momentum.

You guys have totally missed the boat. I almost feel sorry for you guys.

.

[Bao]

If someone is capable or has taken the proper time to learn how the Zhedie and Zhuanhuan movements to power all strikes then striking into the air is and never will be a problem.
...
The whole body becomes like fine machined gears that interlock so precisely that there is no gaps between the teeth. One gear moves, all gears move. One gear stops, all gears stop. Movement without momentum.

I speak about common martial arts practice, something I did 30 years ago, not zhedie, not spine movement, not whole body movement. It doesn't matter how good you know advanced coordination, if you hit in the air like 98% martial artists do, you will have a good chance hurting your elbow. Otoh, if you understand zhedie and whole body coordination, using speed and strength in thin air is completely useless.

You guys have totally missed the boat. I almost feel sorry for you guys

Yeah right...

... If you spent more time practicing and less time theorizing you might understand better when people discuss real practical practice.

[johnwang]

use the Zhedie and Zhuanhuan movements to power all strikes ...

I'm talking about speed punches like this.

[Strange]

ken,
quoting the classics, you obviously believe that them to be training instructions.
are they?
or do they describe the proper desired end state that proper training should achieve?

the same thing for WD, who seems to believe that Master Choi's vid is a training vid.
or was he performing a demo for a group of ppl to show the power of his skill?

to me demo is to show ppl, in training i satisfy no one but my own stringent standard

john,
i have exactly the same reaction when i first read about "pro-life".

As i have said, advance players can do what they want.
but correct understanding is not negotiable.
perhaps to complement my water, i shall remain immovable as mountain
不动如山

[kenneth fish]

Strange:

You obviously need to work on your English language comprehension and go back and read my previous posts on this thread. The similes (明喻) that I posted are descriptive of the kind of speed that one hopes to achieve. As I mentioned above, Xingyi, Bagua, Tongbei, Shaolin and so on all have a wealth of training drills and equipment designed to increase speed and power and help one move in the direction of achieving that kind of speed. Speed and power are necessary for actual use. To increase speed (and for that matter, reactivity) one needs to train in a manner that challenges one to move faster and still retain the desired mechanics.

As far as "punching the air" - professional boxers invest a not insignificant amount of time with shadow boxing and punching drills. I don't think that they would do it if it were a waste of time. Punching a heavy bag has its benefits (it gives unforgiving feedback) but it will not help you to build speed. Traditional CMA also includes bag and other striking surface/target training for the same reasons - it inures one to impact and gives feedback via reflected/rebounded force. It also teaches to focus through the target - but that was not the point of the OP - the point is that if you cannot strike/step/dodge/slip/kick fast (and with power and stability) then you cannot use your "martial art" for a "martial" purpose.

[Wanderingdragon]

use the Zhedie and Zhuanhuan movements to power all strikes ...

I'm talking about speed punches like this.

IMO here we see not a lot of speed but a lot of energy

[JoeWood]

Thought this may be relevant to the discussion:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PcMK3NvvBx8

He has one wearing boxing gloves for the CMA haters on here too.

[johnwang]

use the Zhedie and Zhuanhuan movements to power all strikes ...

I'm talking about speed punches like this.

IMO here we see not a lot of speed but a lot of energy

Back to the "speed" subject", multiple fast punches that exist in the praying mantis system may have power in the 1st punch (because you can put your body behind it). It may not have enough power in the 2nd, or the 3rd punch (because you don't have time to use the whole body). This is why the praying mantis techniques are good to be used for "set up".

[johnwang]

Some "old" speed training drills to share.

[Dnotman]

Striking in air develops power. Speed comes with connection and sensitivity