A word about speed

[Ian]

You see that's boxing, today I can't throw a western jab or cross to save my life , my body is for ever fused with my hand, I step I strike, I strike I transfer all my weight ...

I'm not sure you could say good boxers don't do those things.

I'm sure they can feel every strike through their entire bodies, right through the soles of their feet.

[Wanderingdragon]

Yes, feeling and coordinating are different realities.

[Ian]

What are you saying? That Tyson and Pacqiao aren't coordinated, whereas you are? Am I misrepresenting you here?

[Wanderingdragon]

Just different concepts at work, Pacqiaou yes he throws hands, I have always said with just some basic tweeking in his understanding, Tyson is already doing Xing I.

[kenneth fish]

Overlord:

The sequence you outlined is basically the same as what I was outlining above as well - my point is that if you stop at step one, that is developing the framework, and do not progress to learning to train and apply your skill at full speed, then you are not training for use as well as missing out on what speed training teaches in terms of reactivity and ingraining the mechanical principals of the basic training.

Master Zhang essentially turned all of the teaching over to his wife* around 1968 - from that point on he trained for himself and also behaved like the master chef in a restaurant, checking what we had been shown, making corrections, and sometimes taking over the class. By the time I started learning from him he was teaching very few students - the classes (on the rooftop training space of the building) were generally just myself and one or two other students for the early morning (5:30 to 8:00 or so) class. Other students drifted in and out throughout the course of the day.

Master Zhang had late onset diabetes, and up until the last few months handled it pretty well. He was still able to move with speed and power and demonstrate - and Mrs. Zhang was excellent in her movement, speed, and teaching abilities as well. Master Zhang was not terribly hampered by the loss of one (or two? I forget) of his toes during his initial diabetic crisis.

*anyone who trained at the Yizong main school from about 1964 onward were essentially learning from Mrs. Zhang, regardless of anyone's claims to the contrary. Master Zhang was there all the time, but it was Mrs. Zhang who did most of the leading and instructing. IMO this worked out pretty well - Master Zhang watched everything that went on and made corrections and taught the more detailed parts of the movements.

[Strange]

martial arts need strength
but we do not eat protein shake, bulk up, build muscle
if we need to, it would not follow Dao and would not be ima.

martial arts need speed
if we need to do speed to build speed.
it would not be strange, or 奇。

if the "problem" is solve by conventional, normal way and thinking
then my ima is not ima

it's all good
cheers all

[Strange]

Sun Lu Tang
“大成若缺，其用不弊。大盈若冲，其用不穷”
技者近乎道

[Bhassler]

Really? Is that your definition of IMA? Obtuse for the sake of obtuse?

[Strange]

ah obtuse! how clever!
we have a sharp one!
ohhh so good

and yeah really
if you had to ask, most likely you would not be able to understand it
not in this lifetime anyway, good luck in the next one

[Doc Stier]

Dammit! You kids need to get along now.

[Bhassler]

if you had to ask, most likely you would not be able to understand it

Certainly not with the way you write...

[johnwang]

Some TCMA systems such as the 字门(Ziman) and the praying mantis do require the speed training to the maximum. The 字门(Ziman) system has a training called 通三关/丢三关 (go through 3 joints) that you train how to let your Qi (energy) to go through your shoulder joint, elbow joint, wrist joint, and then reach to your finger tips (used for finger tips strike).

You stay in horse stance and

- drop your right hand on the left side of your left knee (loose shoulder joint),
- swing your right hand in front of your chest (loose elbow joint),
- swing your right hand 45 degree to your right (loose wrist joint).

You then move your left arm and repeat this drill as many as you want. When you can move both of your arms so fast that you can't even be able to see your own arms, you are truly Sung and fast.

[dspyrido]

There's speed and the perception of speed. It's important to:

- drill the body so the muscles are conditioned for maximum speed
- attune to the body so that antagonistic muscles are switched off to remove resistance (slow down)
- all parts are applied together so that they add to the accumulated velocity
- applied in a way that relates to gaps in awareness - namely removing tell signs, leading attacks that distract or minimise the peripheral vision, distraction
- being able to attack in a way that overwhelms the target
- taking an opponent off balance to create a slow down in there ability to react
- to be able read the opponent to know what they will do and be there

The optimal is when they all work together.

[johnwang]

Here is a "speed" test if you have a training partner.

- Both you and your opponent have right leg forward.
- Both of you and your opponent have both hands drop down next to your knees.
- Ask your opponent to touch his right hand on your left shoulder.
- You try to block his right hand attack with your right hand.

Test this for 10 rounds and record your succeed/failure result. You then switch sides and you will throw the attack.

This test will give you some good indication:

- How fast you can punch on your opponent's face with accuracy.
- How fast you can block a face punch with accuracy.

What can be more important than TCMA training like this?

[Taste of Death]

Here is a "speed" test if you have a training partner.

- Both you and your opponent have right leg forward.
- Both of you and your opponent have both hands drop down next to your knees.
- Ask your opponent to touch his right hand on your left shoulder.
- You try to block his right hand attack with your right hand.

Test this for 10 rounds and record your succeed/failure result. You then switch sides and you will throw the attack.

This test will give you some good indication:

- How fast you can punch on your opponent's face with accuracy.
- How fast you can block a face punch with accuracy.

What can be more important than TCMA training like this?

Training like this