Systems Comparison - Fu, Zhu, Huang

[Andy_S]

Can't speak for the others, but Zhu was my first Taiji master-level instructor (Jingwu Association, Malaysia, 1995-6)

Pros:
Zhu is a very nice man, and very open
Really nice set of 18 neigong (teaching expand compress, opening and closing) though as they were not explained to me at the time ("just do it") it took me years to work out what they were really for.
Lot's of silk reeling and form training.
Unlike many other Taiji styles, Chen has fajing training built into its curriculum - both in the forms and the weapons (notably, pole and spear).
He will show you the applications if you really want them.

Cons
Just a little bit of PH, mostly the set variants.
No fight training - no competitive tuisa or sansau - that I ever saw
No self-defense drilling or training that I ever saw
Zhu lives and teaches largely in Singapore, where there is little demand for combative material

In sum: If you want to learn a good IMA, Zhu has the material - hell, just watching him move is educational. But AFAIK, he does not teach much of anything that is fight-related.

[edededed]

In my experience, teachers teach less material the longer they teach, in general. I wonder if Zhu teaches the same material now as before?

[Andy_S]

Ed:

I would imagine they teach the full Chen curriculum. Once people are fed up with yet another seminar on silk reeling or laojia first form, is big money in a seminar on (say) the double sabers or the 42-fajin form (which was designed simply as a demo form in the 1970s).

Funnily enough, my own practice in recent years is much more back-to-basics than learning new material. Last time I met some of my juniors (at a demo last year) they were surprised by the small amount of stuff I was practicing, compared to the endless weapons, double weapons, paired weapons forms they had all been learning.

[edededed]

Oh, if he is teaching seminars, then no doubt! You can't deny the draw of something like double sabers, glaive, or the like... but after, say, 10 years of this and no gongfu, you do start to wonder!

Still, Malaysian and Singaporean peeps are quite lucky to have Zhu nearby to learn from!

(Although, I wonder if Zhu had his shared of bullying as a kid - being named "Genius" is kind of asking for it!)

[wayne hansen]

Andy which chin Wu did zhu teach in
Or did he teach in each of them

[leifeng]

In sum: If you want to learn a good IMA, Zhu has the material - hell, just watching him move is educational. But AFAIK, he does not teach much of anything that is fight-related.

Do any of the village masters teach anything fight-related systematically?

[Pennykid]

Thanks for the detailed reply, Andy. Based on what you have written, a Zhu disciple would most likely not have what I'm looking for.

[Andy_S]

Wayne:

Zhu was imported by the Singapore Chin Woo Assoc, and he also taught all over Malaysia - I trained under him in KL in 95. The Sing Chin Woo had first bought over Chen Xiaowang (I think this wa the first time he left PRC) but had a big issue with him over financial matters. When that fell through, they invited Zhu over,. He is a very nice chap, and is still there to this day.

Laifang:

Chen Zhiqiang loves fighting and is all about teaching the standup wrassling. I understand taht the Wang brothers are also pretty combative, and perhaps some fo the Huleijia people.

But it is perfectly possible for someone to learn Chen Village Taiji for 20++ years and get NOTHING martial, as the masters are perfectly happy teaching endless forms if studetns are satisfied with that. So a lot depends on what you ask for.

This of course is probably true across the wider Taijiscape where very, very few people are combative, and even of thoe who are, many are utterly clueless. In fact, the only Taiji group that I have encountered that is outright martial from day one - combat is built into their curriculum whether the student likes it or nor - is Dan Docherty's.

[Pennykid]

Earlier in this thread I stated that "Meeks has forgotten most of the Yang he learned" and today he made it a point to inform me he has not. He couldn't perfectly pull it out of his memory back when I had asked him about it but he could bring it all back if he really wanted to.
I don't want to misrepresent Dave's knowledge and credentials. His taiji still exists in case anyone is wondering.