neijia_boxer wrote:D_Glenn-
hey how is it going? right, when Park taught the technique it was done "big and exaggerated" in the warm-up phase much like the way the guy is going in the video. later is becomes smaller and refined and even unperceivable in the fighting forms as to not waste movement and telegraph intent. What I see Mike Patterson doing is the small movement. He kindly goes to slow motion for the viewer. This is no different than the way I was taught the "Tien gong" in Gao style baguazhang. the movements can be done long and extended to train the body to stretch and develop strength and power, and then refined to much smaller refined movement for combat.
i guess i am less familiar with the terms and differences in the tucked/untucked versions of spinal wave power. I just have done dragon back, single palm with the dragon back, double palm strike with dragon back type exercises.
Matt
I just realized that with all the other side-tangents going on that I never got back to you on this.
We don't use the term "Dragon Back" but I've seen the still photos in Park's book and many of his students have attended our seminars and some have asked "Oh, you know how to do the Dragon Back?", and I had to answer that I don't really know what they're talking about but I believe it's the same thing. And seeing it now, for the first time, the actual video footage of Park's Dragon Back exercise and based on what Steve wrote I'd say it's even closer to what we do.
The Chinese Dragon has the body/ spine of a Snake and I believe Lu Shuitian is, in some manner or another, in the Yin Fu lineage, and what Park does is in many ways similar to our Zhen Trigram Dragon System so that's my guess for where the name comes from. Also the Dragon uses Double palms/ hands striking outward - where both arms employing the same attacking method. It's more of a bold and brazen outgoing attack but can be an effective tactic which goes along with the Dragon's overall aggressive manner and fighting strategy, and it is one of the simpler ways to go about learning the 'Bolang Jin' method of using the torso: because both arms are doing the same thing and the waist isn't needing to turn side-to-side so there's less things moving around that one needs to think about and can focus on just the movements of their spine.
But really 'Bolang Jin' is in everything - used in every animal system, incorporated into every movement/ technique/ attack because, as I've already mentioned, it's how one adds a 發 'Fa' (issuing/ emitting) into the movement. So rather than just focusing on a few basic skills we just start learning it by practicing it in an assortment of striking techniques, beginning with striking drills done while in stationary 'horse'-type stance, (like in the Dragon Back video), but with more variety of techniques so that one's spine and waist doesn't get too used to moving in just one way.
(Chen Xiaowang had mentioned to me that even though it: (發 'Fa' (issuing)/'Bolang Jin') is only done in some movements during the 'Yi Lu' form, and in even more movements in the 'Er Lu' / 'Paochui' form, that one still needs to learn to use it in nearly every movement of all the forms by the drilling the single movements and then drilling small segments of the forms, on their own time.)
The movement needs to be big, overt, and obvious,
in the beginning, in order to actually learn and engrain the bio-mechanical movements of the spine. It's not large movements just for sake of being obvious or looking powerful, it's just done that way in order to learn it.
It's really rare to see any film footage of someone who's still in the process of learning it and is willing to have the clumsy movements filmed.
Throughout the gradual process of learning and engraining the movement of the torso, hips, shoulders, the movement becomes increasingly smaller, refined, more compact and efficient but this refinement cannot be forced along as it takes time and diligent practice. So while there are a few good video examples of Chinese martial artist's who have already learned how to do it and are properly demonstrating 'Fa Li'/ 'Fajin', the problem is that the actual movements of their spine are so refined and hidden by clothing that the 發 'Fa' is only noticeable as it comes up through their upper back, around the shoulders and out into their arms and it's hard to tell if it's real or not unless you yourself also knows the underlying bio-mechanics of what's going on.
Also, as mentioned, it's difficult to find any videos of people who are only part way in the process, so therefore any video showing genuine 發 'Fa' (issuing) is likely going to be employing the smaller, refined movements.
On the other side of the coin however is actually finding and getting to see video of someone who knows it and is willing to show it done while using large, overt movements and they should be respected for the instructional material they show and not be looked down upon, i.e. -
"it's no good, it's too big, it should never be done that way, etc.".
(Then there are a ton of videos of people who only claim to know it (because genuine 發 'Fa' is ultimately a small refined movement), but can't do it and further distort what it actually is. The result is even larger numbers of people who then think they can learn it by only imitating the small subtle movements of the upper back, shoulders, and arms, who are also then at the crux of the problem (in terms of genuine skills successfully being passed down to the next generation), as nobody is even moving their spines at all.)
The above, combined with the generalized secrecy of the Chinese, and especially of their martial arts, is why, if one wants to really learn the skill, one has to literally
steal the skill from their teachers - through visual observation and having the ability to discern what you see then trying to replicate the movements within your own body. There really aren't any spoken words or written instructions that can accurately describe what's happening or the gradual and long process that's undertaken to learn how to do it. And, as I and other Chinese martial artist have written, while there are names attached to, or rather given to the movements, the names themselves don't really have anything to do with the movement itself, they're more just labels to identify and distinguish them.
So, I guess my point is that I wasn't even taught the names. I learned it solely through observation and then trying to mimic the movements. There are times during the long process, and well along on the path to discovery, where you say to yourself "There's no way this will ever work." and want to quit. But, in my case, thanks to just a few encouraging words from my teacher:
"You're on the right track. It's an extremely difficult movement and skill, I know, because I also went through it, but there's really no instructions I can give that will help you except to say 'Just keep practicing'." I stuck with it.
The 'Bolang Jin' / 'Fa' is, I think, such a difficult skill to learn that it can be too easy for people to just give up on learning it properly but I'm hoping with the right words and knowing that there is an actual peak to the learning curve - so that once you've trudged your way up and come over the top of that peak it's all a downhill easy ride and your own body can then, in a sense, begin to teach itself, where everything just starts coming together (all the pieces of the puzzle falling into place), and the
'Body-Method-Dependent' abilities in some of these Chinese Martial Art styles will start to come alive again because so many of their applications are directly dependent upon this usage of the spine and waist.
.