Aiki - what does it mean?

[northern_mantis]

I've done the wiki definition but what are your definitions, what does it mean in practice and what arts does it apply to?

Is it the japanese equivalent of the chinese internals?

Thanks

[Bill]

[klonk]

search.php?keywords=aiki&terms=all&author=&sc=1&sf=all&sr=posts&sk=t&sd=d&st=0&ch=300&t=0&submit=Search

[Dmitri]

Bill, I'll take that hot dog and raise you this (it came up as the search result #4 when googling "aiki"):

[Interloper]

In other words, it's a loaded term, interpreted in myriad ways depending on the source (sort of like the story of the 5 blind men and the elephant: each felt a different part of the elephant's body, and so described the elephant solely based on the part they were feeling --- yeah, hold off on the dirty jokes, thankyou! ).

From my perspective, "aiki" is the process of connecting to and controlling someone's center -- and thus, his body -- using IP/IS. It is a product of an internal-strength conditioned body; you can't have aiki without that.

But if you talk to someone who trains in contemporary aikido, they would give you a completely different interpretation because the internal component of aikido, as utilized by founder Morihei Ueshiba, has largely been lost. That is, unless the aikido person you ask has been training, lately, with one of the folks who are teaching IP/IS to motivated aikido folks in hopes that it will be incorporated back into the art.

[klonk]

Isn't there something Shawn usually says about now?

[Chris Fleming]

It's the loooooooove of kiiiiiiiiiii.

[Finny]

lol

Yeah. Aiki has the above definitions in the "aikijujutsu/aikido" world - that is, as several folks explained, there are various definitions depending on which Daito Ryu/aikido group you're talking to.

Then there are other, older uses of the term in the koryu world. Again - these vary and can basically be entirely dependant upon the interpretation/use applied by the individual ryuha/shihan. Off the top of my head, Kashima Shinryu, Tenjin Shinyo Ryu, Kiraku Ryu and Yagyu Shingan Ryu are a few koryu that use the term. Could be wrong though - not an exponent of any of these schools.

So

Is it the japanese equivalent of the chinese internals?

Yes, in a way.

[klonk]

You can see what disarray the aiki concept is in when you have a niche industry trying to offer aiki to aiki-do.

A word that means anything you choose is a word you ought regard with great suspicion.

[Interloper]

northern_mantis wrote:

Is it the japanese equivalent of the chinese internals?


Finny wrote:
Yes, in a way.

I'd say in a big way. At least, in regards to using the same underlying body methods for producing internal structure/IP. You can't have aiki without IS/IP. In its own way, certain Japanese IMA's interpretation of aiki utilizes what Chinese IMA would refer to as the physical concepts of peng, an, ji, tsai, etc., and internals-driven forms of fajin; however, AFAIK there is no equivalent lexicon or terminology in Japanese, and both teaching and learning are highly intuitive via hands-on experience.

[Interloper]

You can see what disarray the aiki concept is in when you have a niche industry trying to offer aiki to aiki-do.

A word that means anything you choose is a word you ought regard with great suspicion.

It depends. While there's a number of men out there offering "internal body methods," I believe that only a couple or few are actually calling it "aiki," and it's because their source was at least in considerable part from Daito-ryu aiki. Daito-ryu aiki is aiki the Morihei Ueshiba learned from Sokaku Takeda, and Daito-ryu (and its aiki) is what he adapted into aikido.

It does make for an interesting question as to whether learning internal skills from CIMA adepts would somehow make their aikido less "authentic," even if it did make their aikido more effective. And, of course aikido people should be wary of who is claiming to offer them "aiki" or IMA methods of any sort. Too many wannabes and charlatans, not enough authentic teachers. But word-of-mouth has led quite a few seekers to men of proven skills and reputations, so I'm not terribly concerned.

[klonk]

Well, you know my position already. Ueshiba did not have it. If he did he did not pass it on. He certainly never demonstrated it on camera. So to assemble a panel that says what is wrong with Aikido is frivolous. I assume it is exactly as its founder intended and his son passed on.

I don't think Aikido is useful, but it is what it is.

[Fingolfin]

Ouch.Interloper has touched it with a needle.

[edededed]

Peng, lu, ji, an... are concepts central to taijiquan and are not necessarily shared by all the "internals." Thus, I would not assume that they (or any other style's precepts) are also coincidentally included in Daito-ryu as well. Obviously, some things may randomly coincide nevertheless (in this case, perhaps "peng"), especially if you look at things more generally than specifically.

"Qi" is a somewhat more specific term than its child, "ki," because a vague term will often become vaguer upon crossing borders, only bringing part of its definition with it (and then later adding new layers of meaning)... That said, I guess we can say that "aiki" literally means something like "matching ki" or "connecting ki," which can be interpreted in various ways!

[klonk]

Don't mean a thing, if you ain't got that jin(g), Doo whap doo whaah.