Yang family

[Trick]

Doesn’t the story goes that FZW (while still in yongnian ) was put in charge teaching at least the two youngest sons of YCF ?
While still in youngnian FZW studied in the senior branch of Yang family TJQ which is Yang Banhou version, that’s the one YCF show in the form pictures of in his books. The form YCF taught in Shanghai is more of his father’s version.
Anyway its not so much how the outward appearance of the postures look as whats inside the postures

[Bao]

YJ does the form the way his grandfather did, YCF's son.

He has tried to standardize one version of his fathers many.

Sure, it's possible for anyone to point to YJ's faults or that YCF style is crap. He still knows way more about it than anyone on rsf.

You are 100% correct, I totally agree. This is EXACTLY my problem with YJ. He knows A LOT. he comes from a martial arts family. He has spoken PLENTY about memories, as watching people and relatives practicing Tai Chi fast forms and "under the table" frame. He teaches NOTHING of this. Why do you want to serve a Big Mac when you have the recipes for Michelin star restaurant food??? Because if you want to make fast money the Big Mac is much safer, it is so f*ng plain so everyone can eat it.

The difference is that the MacDonalds restaurants are honest and call their food for what it is, fast food.

What YJ does is teach YCF's form "by the book." If you look at YCF's pictures and YJ's, they're supposed to be identical.

Literally by the book. All is about surface

That doesn't mean it's as good or better than any other of Its derivatives. I think it's a good idea to have a specific standard. It's not the case with all styles. For ex, CMC derived styles are often very different.

If you are obsessed by a specific standard, what standard should be the correct one? So what should THE Tai Chi standard be. Something like the standard of Tian Zhaolin linage where they have 10 different empty hand forms, as well as training methods preserved from Yang Cheng Fu's father and brothers? Or someone who has built a brand with a practice simple enough so anyone could practice it?

Anyway its not so much how the outward appearance of the postures look as whats inside the postures

Exactly. It's all about the engine. Mimicking the surface is not the same as understanding internal principles or how to build that engine. At it best surface-only-Tai Chi becomes a simple Qigong exercise.

[Steve James]

I know they don’t have the whole system

"They" being who? Who's teaching the whole "Yang" tcc system? Which "Yang" system? YLC, YCF, YSC, Zhao, Tung? Someone who knows the entire Tung system (probably) won't know Yang Shao Chung's system --because they just aren't the same. This isn't unusual; it's true of Chen and Wu.
Nobody knows the whole tcc system.

I thought the five tigers referred to a bunch(5) of diverse martial artist from the north that went south ?

There are lots of tiger references in cma But, afa tcc in the last 40 years or so, this is what the "four tigers" referred to,

The “Four Tigers of Chen Village” refer to four renowned tai chi grandmasters from Chen Village, China: Chen Xiaowang, Chen Zhenglei, Wang Xi’an, and Zhu Tiancai. These masters played a crucial role in promoting and preserving the traditional Chen-style tai chi, a martial art that originated in the village.

https://www.chinadaily.com.cn/culture/2 ... 437686.htm

[Steve James]

Literally by the book. All is about surface

I'm not saying YJ's is the tcc that everyone should learn, but that's because I agree with Wayne that I don't things that others do. So, if someone wants more than what they see in YJ's stuff, they should find another teacher.

I do think it's important to preserve YCF's form as it appears in the book. Though, I'm not saying that YJ is the only person to know it, or that there aren't others who do and who are more martial. Fu Zhongwen's line still exists (in the UK or Australia)?

Sorry, it's just that I'd rather say something positive than something negative about a teacher/practitioner. There are always "some good things, some not so good things."

[everything]

no criticism. and not specific to any yangs. "sheet music" isn't what makes a piece of art "alive". moreover the "external" movements/shapes aren't showing the "inside". if there is "one form standard", we can have high def video for "eternity" (until the purple aliens or AI have taken over)

[windwalker]

Literally by the book. All is about surface

.

kinda depends on the book
Good book outlining the basis for developing a
practice based on inner concepts

[Steve James]

Here's a video of FZW's grandson doing a modified form. It's ten years old, though I'd guess he'd still be the lineage holder.


Hey, here he is more recently giving an explanation. Unfortunately, there are no subtitles, and I don't speak Chinese.

[Steve James]

Here's an example of YSC's style of push hands. The video explains who he is.

[windwalker]

@ Steve , good clip

Depending on level of practice don't feel it's really necessary to understand what he's saying,
although it definitely does help lots of details in his explanation

He's talking about the relationship of the knee alignment among other things.






Fu Qingquan explains how to practice Tai Chi scientifically

[Bao]

Here's an example of YSC's style of push hands. The video explains who he is.

I can't see YSC in the clip. Did you post the wrong video or what did you want to say with it?

[wayne hansen]

'm not saying YJ's is the tcc that everyone should learn, but that's because I agree with Wayne that I don't things that others do. So, if someone wants more than what they see in YJ's stuff, they should find another teacher.

I wasn’t referring to you not having the whole system
I was referring to The Yang Family

[Steve James]

No worries, anybody.

Afa YSC, he's not in that clip. That's just what they call "Dynamic push hands." Jim Uglow is/was the senior western student of Yang Ma Lee. I might be out of date, but they call their association/style Yeung style (at least in the UK where they are/were based). In the US, Gin Soon Chu taught in Boston, and Vincent Chu (iirc) taught in NYC, Btwm FZW's association calls itself Yongnian tcc.

Here's a clip of YSC.


Here's Jim Uglow with a better explanation that I could give. I haven't watched the whole thing yet.


When I look at these clips, I pay attention to the slight differences. There is always a reason.

[Steve James]

Here's a Yongnian (FZW Yang) style spear form.


John W might like this kind of Yang style more.

[wayne hansen]

Are you sure they are FZW I have never seen anyone in his lineage do San Shou before

[Steve James]

Here's what's supposed to be one of the Yang Banhou forms. Every step is almost a kick


Here's a Yang Jianhou form. No need to compare .