Wang Yan and Neutralization

[origami_itto]

@origami_itto,
I’m going to agree and then disagree.

Initial taijiquan training, especially in push hands, may train you to be reactive, but this is primarily to train you not to be anticipatory.

Then, with that under your belt, you learn to be proactive. In @johnwang’s waiting-for-the-girl-to-call analogy, you hack the girl’s phone, so all the calls she makes go to you.

I don't disagree. There's a story, don't know if it's true, about two masters who faced off. One put their foot on the other's chest and the other put his palm on it or something and they just stopped. The story goes they both recognized if they attacked they'd be countered and so left it a draw.

In most situations, we don't have to wait for it. They bring it. In sports they have to bring it or they get penalized. In self defense, what they're bringing is the whole point of the exercise.

I don't know about girls, I'm so attractive they literally fight over me. Frankly it's a bit of a problem.

Usually I've got time to wait for it to come or not happen.

Specifically and technically and philosophically....

In general you don't want to be following their initiative. You don't want to just run from check till it's mate.

You want them to commit, expose a weakness, and exploit that.

If you look at the five elements, in Taijiquan they map onto the taijitu.

In the center, where it's perfectly balanced between yin and yang is earth, central equilibrium. I wrote an article about that. It's the state we want to be in to control everything.

At the top in the Yang side is fire, advance. If it's time to advance we should advance and continue to advance without hesitation, but in the advance there is vulnerability, the black dot. We have to avoid overcommitted attacks and we want to draw them into overcommitted attacks.

At the bottom is water, retreat. When we need to give ground we do it, but if we do it right, there is a reversal into an attack, the white dot.

To the left is wood, expect/gaze left. This is prompting and awaiting action actively (Yang) by creating false impressions of attacking.

To the right, metal, watch/look right. Prompting and awaiting action passively (yin) by creating false impressions of vulnerability.

That's the basic method. "React don't attack" is a strategic choice that becomes more important the better your opponent is at responding.

[wayne hansen]

Look left
Gaze right
It is important

[ThomasK]

But what's the gaze? -> Six direction awareness

[origami_itto]

Look left
Gaze right
It is important

According to who? Yang, Dong, and Wu family writing is the other way around. (Though Alex translates it as Watc h Left and Expect Right)

Could you provide a source and explain what you think the importance of the distinction is?

[Steve James]

Gaze and look are translated from Chinese. So, find the oldest written reference and see what characters are used. Iinm, in one TCC Ching translation, it's "Look" Left and "Look" Right for (Tso Ku) and (Yu Pan).
Imo it's not a matter of tcc being reactive or not. For one thing, why would I be on offense? Unless someone attacks me or I'm in a competition, I'm always on defense. So, I don't agree with the premise that this has anything at all to do with tcc or any martial art.

But, let's talk about competition. Is tcc a good attacking art? Imo, no. It's not part of tcc theory. It is much better at turning defense into offense. The Classics say something like
"It is said if the opponent does not move, then I do not move.
At the opponent's slightest move, I move first."

One waits for the opponent the way a cat plays with a mouse or a hawk circles above a rabbit.
Also becoming stronger and faster than opponents is not the goal. That can be a natural ability, and not a skill.

Yep, I know. It's all blah, blah, blah. Ya can't really blame anyone. Many in the tcc community look down on those who compete. They'll generally say that they don't see any tcc, or that the execution is low level. Otoh, those low level guys always do better than the 'masters.' Ok, I don't think it's possible to become a master without being low level first.

[wayne hansen]

It’s only Blah when the information comes from chat GPT
When it is passed on from hand to hand the reason is there
I won’t explain further because it exposes those who are outside of the knowledge
Those who understand don’t need an explanation
I already have said too much

[origami_itto]

It’s only Blah when the information comes from chat GPT
When it is passed on from hand to hand the reason is there
I won’t explain further because it exposes those who are outside of the knowledge
Those who understand don’t need an explanation
I already have said too much

LMFAO you are hilarious sometimes bruh.

[origami_itto]

User
analyze the following text for signs of mental illness


"It’s only Blah when the information comes from chat GPT
When it is passed on from hand to hand the reason is there
I won’t explain further because it exposes those who are outside of the knowledge
Those who understand don’t need an explanation
I already have said too much"

ChatGPT
Analyzing text for signs of mental illness based solely on a short passage is challenging and often inaccurate without additional context and information about the individual's behavior, thoughts, and emotions. However, I can provide some general observations based on the text provided:

Paranoia: The passage suggests a level of paranoia, particularly in the statement "It's only Blah when the information comes from Chat GPT" and "I won't explain further because it exposes those who are outside of the knowledge." This could indicate a distrust of others and a belief that information is being used against the individual.

Grandiosity: There's a hint of grandiosity in the phrase "Those who understand don't need an explanation," which suggests that the speaker believes they possess special knowledge or insight that others lack. This can sometimes be a symptom of certain mental health conditions.

Circumstantial thinking: The text appears somewhat circumstantial, with the speaker alluding to information without directly stating it. This could suggest disorganized thinking or difficulty in expressing thoughts coherently.

Withdrawal: The final statement, "I already have said too much," may indicate a desire to withdraw or withhold information, possibly out of fear or anxiety.

However, it's important to note that these observations are speculative and based solely on the text provided. Without further context or information about the individual's behavior and experiences, it's impossible to make a definitive assessment of their mental health. If you're concerned about someone's mental health, it's best to encourage them to seek support from a qualified mental health professional.

[wayne hansen]

Transference

[origami_itto]

Transference

Naw man I acknowledge my need for therapy and medication.

But this fortune cookie crap is passe. Nobody is standing outside the temple for three days without encouragement to get access to the secret knowledge.

You just have to show up and not be a dick...
OH!!! I guess that explains why you think people are withholding.

Everyone I know with actual skill is free and generous with their information and perspective. They don't always agree and that's fine, but I guess like Wai Lun Choi said in Kung Fu terms he's a millionaire, he's got it to spare.

The folks with skill and talent want people to catch up and play on their level, and will help people get there.

Don't take this as some kind of pleading for your secret store of knowledge, honestly, it's just a recognition of where you're coming from.

[johnwang]

Is tcc a good attacking art? Imo, no. It's not part of tcc theory. It is much better at turning defense into offense.

You can always force your opponent to respond to your move, you can then take advantage on it. In the following clip, 3 different strategies have been applied at the same time.

You move your:

1. right arm counter-clockwise on your opponent's left arm. Your opponent borrows your force and move with you, you then borrow his force.
2. left arm clockwise on your opponent's right arm. Your opponent borrows your force and move with you, you change your clockwise move into counterclockwise move, intercept your opponent's move, and wrap/pull his right arm.
3. right leg, bite on your opponent's right leg, use your shin bone to press the inside of his leg, and take him down.

In all 3 strategies, you move first.

[Steve James]

But, if we're not talking about a competition, then there's no need to make someone want to hit me. They want to already.

However, luring the opponent by giving them an opening works. That'd be a tcc theory. Of course, nothing stops me from trying to punch someone in the mug, but that's practice not theory.

[johnwang]

But, if we're not talking about a competition, then there's no need to make someone want to hit me.

Competition is safe and fun. Street fight is not.

You may spar (competition) 10,000 times through your lifetime, but you may never get involve in street fight. Besides competition will have no legal issue. There is nothing wrong to train for competition and not train for street fight.

[origami_itto]

That's the point though. In a street fight especially you need to not be the aggressor. If you are responding and countering their violence that's what the witnesses and cameras see. If you're aggressively attacking and overpowering them, you are opening yourself up for liability.

There's always a chance they won't actually attack. As long as you are safe, no need to strike first.

[BruceP]

Competition is safe and fun. Street fight is not.

You may spar (competition) 10,000 times through your lifetime, but you may never get involve in street fight. Besides competition will have no legal issue. There is nothing wrong to train for competition and not train for street fight.

Agree with your viewing competition as nothing more than another level of sparring. It'll go a lot further than push hands to developing basic fighting method for competition and 'street fight'. Properly structured sparring, and all that...

'Street fight' can occur in so many different forms of conflict, though, and it's something that should be explored beyond styles or notions of circumstance. Coming to someone's aid or protecting a loved one/family member might be something that can't be avoided, and one's proactive/aggressive actions would most likely preclude any concerns one might normally have regarding liability.