kundalini experience

[wiesiek]

in this point,
worth to mention, that schizophrenics states of the mind , acid or psychoactive plants/frogs trips - share some >impressions< which seems to occupied meditations zones. This seems to be unknown for some members here.
Connection with IMA?
Quite big, if you ask me. Without deep meditations training your IMA never reach the plateau .

[cloudz]

After skim reading this thread I have one glaring question for everyone. What do you feel this has got to do with ima specifically? (Note: emphasis is on combat)

No I am not trying to derail the thread. I am asking because I am actually curious if you feel indian yogic practise, lsd, deep meditation or other related aspects have relevance to ima? If so how does this flow onto martial/combat context? What objective tests have you run around this? Barring that what has it provided you anectodotaly & is repeatable in its results?

I am asking what you (as in everyone responding) believes. Not what you have heard from others.

And yes happy to post this elsewhere.

Ok, my opinion:

Neigong is CIMA essentially, and Neigong uses the same tools as cultivation only it turns it's attention to "work on" the physical expression of martial arts- alongside the inner cultivation. My opinion is "we" create our martial wei-gong through and with nei-gong tools primarily - that's the difference to me.
The tools are; breath, mind/intent, and sensation / kinaesthetic feeling and awareness ("qi")....

And nei-gong and chi-gung are really essentially the same thing when you get down to brass tacks.

[wiesiek]

dispirdyo,
it is no matter of believes , just reality.
Do you like to have shorter responding time with outstanding accuracy ?
be cool, whatever happens, etc? : - meditate and do technical staff according to you present body/mind condition.
Psychoactive toys may be helpful on some point of the Way,
but
by any means, cannot be exchange for years of meditation practice.
I`m not discovering anything here, it is in our arts tradition.

[SteveBonzak]

Hi Meeks-

Could you explain how the intense energetic response you had from meditation translates into better hitting power? How exactly do you bridge the two? I understand how to develop intense energetic feelings from meditation, but am curious how to connect that to real physical skill. I am not trolling this thread, I am just genuinely curious. Thanks!

-Steve

[dspyrido]

Hi dspyrido, I was going to talk about that because I have a couple things that I wanted to say but chose not too.
I started meditating at about 15 years old. no guide, no instructions, don't know why, just did.
any way's years later still nothing. I was doing MMA. any way's finally I found something visually cool. I went to school,
win some/lose some, it didn't help. Now it's been years since then and I came real close to a few altercation's
I remember thinking wow, I cant believe I was that calm, I never used to be that calm, and even after those close call's
I was also shocked because within 2 min after the close call, I was completely normal and happy again. That shit would have ruined my
whole day in the past. in-short, I think that if your calm you can make the right choices at the right time.
Martial is important, but so is happiness.

I got started into meditation pretty much the same way. Then got formally taught. Then went off meditation & then came back to it under the ima training method.

Staying calm under pressure may be a meditative thing. Might be just years of training with hard opponents. Maybe both. I don't see meditation hurting anyone unless they go too far off on the deep end.

Neigong is CIMA essentially, and Neigong uses the same tools as cultivation only it turns it's attention to "work on" the physical expression of martial arts- alongside the inner cultivation. My opinion is "we" create our martial wei-gong through and with nei-gong tools primarily - that's the difference to me.
The tools are; breath, mind/intent, and sensation / kinaesthetic feeling and awareness ("qi")....

And nei-gong and chi-gung are really essentially the same thing when you get down to brass tacks.

George - it may be a part of the practice. The question is why? What is the benefit associated with combat? Do we just do because it makes us different to other art forms?

Do you like to have shorter responding time with outstanding accuracy ?
be cool, whatever happens, etc? : - meditate and do technical staff according to you present body/mind condition.

Why not just practice hitting things & practising reaction timing all day? It will produce great results on accuracy, power & speed.


Ok I will highlight one I got from meditative standing postures. The method of sinking (I prefer draining) which is the conscious release of muscular tension blockers I feel only comes from standing postures which cannot be done without a meditative internally focused mindset. The value to combat is being more difficult to throw, heavier in hitting & wrt defenses when structured right with the proper alignment (peng) become short, relaxed moves that are also fast.

Others? Do you see a tie in of kundulini like experience into the ima arts & hence a combat benefit?

[wiesiek]

hitting things and rest of the trainings are supplementing by meditation,
yang and yin, two faces of the practice.
Connecting kundalini experience, or similar energy manifestation during meditation , directly with some MA technique doesn`t make to much sense, however some MA systems was directly transmited from the heaven, thanx to meditation...
and
standing posture with the focus on breathing thru DT is "basic" meditation anyway.
+ I really don`t know MA system where meditation is 5th wheel in the cart.
Fact is , that if you`re stack in your practice, meditation is opening the door, which you may never suspect - existed /my personal experience/.
How it transitioning itself directly for better fighting ability - have no idea.
You need specialized researcher and environment to evaluated it.
BUT
MA masters of past and present time - all styles,- highlight importance of meditation.
They misguiding us?, do you think so?

[everything]

Somewhat related, Fedor on his state of mind before a fight: "When I walk into a fight, I'm trying not to think about anything; collect myself and concentrate. And going into a fight, I don't feel any emotions, neither anger nor compassion. I don't emotionalize. I'm going into a fight with a clear mind... During the fight, my senses dim and basically I don't feel any pain."

[I-mon]

anyone here have experience with the opening and rising of kundalini energies? looking to share experiences and get other peoples' perspective on how it changed (if at all) their life...

I hesitate to use the term "kundalini" as if I fully understand the term, although I have researched it for a good decade or two now. When I do use the term I tend to think more that the process is actually "awakening TO kundalini" rather than "awakening OF kundalini", where kundalini shakti means the force or energy of all life and change and movement in the manifest universe. The "mother of all things". I'd love it if there were a few Sanskrit scholars on the board so we could hear what they have to say about the origins and history of the term.

My own practice of opening up the central axis of my body ( and the anatomical, physiological, emotional and mental processes taking place along it) to conscious awareness has progressed in waves over the years, with big breakthroughs occurring at times and slow and steady progress at others. Had (and still have) experiences which felt bizarre at first, finding that I am still a worm with a blind tube consciousness, still a kind of segmented snake-like fish or eel, still have pectoral and pelvic fins attached to my spine, and a body which walks on land with the same undulation as swimming through water, still has sharp teeth and blunt teeth and claws and fur and all of these other bits and pieces which all somehow know what to do to get around, that I'm a pulsing breathing conscious bag of mostly-water, that I'm a giant and that all other living creatures big enough to see are also giants, that I'm living in a kind of soup of the same pulsing living stuff, and that the life in my body and the rest of the world is ancient and full of it's own kind of intelligence and knowledge.

All sorts of visions and crazy physical sensations have popped up along the way as well, especially when relaxation is deep or when concentration is strong, with different breathing patterns or vocalisations, and especially around the entry and exit of "absorption" into the object of focus during one-pointed concentration meditation, where time, space, bodily sensations, the sense of self and the senses generally all get distorted or amplified or filtered out. Intense exhilaration, feelings of vast spaciousness, the body becoming huge or tiny, heat, sweating, electricity, lights, sounds, phrases, flashes or torrents of memories, all sorts of things.

[NoSword]

"Bolang jin", the passing of a wave vertically through the spinal column, is a fundamental energy in all the IMA's, as Devlin has documented nicely in his writings here. Over time this wave 'cleans' the spine of tension and brings awareness throughout the entire nervous system. Practicing that wave diligently over time, I don't see how one could avoid the sorts of experiences characterized as 'kundalini', even though the cultural framework and terminology might differ.

This is a good example too of how the practical and spiritual aspects of the arts compose an integral whole. If you don't get the concrete feedback that the martial side of the arts provide, you won't discover the spiritual or energetic sides either. Conversely, I don't see how one could learn to use that spinal wave in a martial context without *some* sort of transformation energetically.

[meeks]

Hi Meeks-

Could you explain how the intense energetic response you had from meditation translates into better hitting power? How exactly do you bridge the two? I understand how to develop intense energetic feelings from meditation, but am curious how to connect that to real physical skill. I am not trolling this thread, I am just genuinely curious. Thanks!

-Steve

HI Steve,

I've been trying to piece it all together for the last few weeks and it's still quite 'mind blowing' how pervasive it has become throughout everything I do in my day and in my training. Imagine a snake inside you that is sentient and can communicate with you. At times it (or they) rise up inside you, and extend energetically through the 'roof of your skull' and reach the ceiling above you. When other energies are within a certain range (a cemetery, a religious temple, people that are suffering ailments) the snake inside you rears up like an alert watchdog to give you a warning and acts like a compass to point out where they are (like 'spidey sense') - I swear if it could bark like a dog it would - other times it/they lay dormant at the base of your spine (or lower abdomen).

Circle walking I've decided I cannot practise in public until the experience integrates with me fully - still lots of changes occurring - circle walking is far too energetically stimulating for the snake(s) and causes 'werewolf in front of a full moon' type physical manifestations (facial tension, gritting teeth, stretching the jaw wide open) and the snake rears up inside and all you feel is pure predator taking over your personality. It's exhilarating as hell (I love it!) but it's not something I feel like testing the waters with while a few students are standing there watching the changes thinking "WTF is wrong with you?!?".

It has settled down in some aspects over the last few weeks while I integrate the experience, but it really has started a domino effect of other things going on within my daily experiences and training. Both of my main kungfu instructors back in the 90s taught me a considerable amount of qi gong related to martial arts, which I did in phases... a year here, a few years there - sometimes up to 3 hours a day and then nothing for 6 months. I've been hitting it hard every day since 2010, up to 3x a day each time up to an 1.5 hours - I wasn't expecting this though, since neither of them discussed this aspect with me - we always just talked about 'power' (translation: all I asked about was how to develop power) and now that I've been making such solid gains the last few years I realize that true power comes from release during meditation, not gain.
Yes, there's all the yin qigong (hard qi gong) which is more physical conditioning exercises... still love those. but this was accomplished by practising the seated meditations as taught by my teachers and embracing those exercises as a way the pervades my daily activities.

I still recognize there is a difference in energies between what you gain in hard qi gong vs circle walking vs seated meditation vs standing...etc... so I wouldn't say is the way to increase power. Definitely a way to increase situational awareness, when you've something sentient inside alerting you to seemingly unperceived issues around you. I overcame my hunger (mostly) for hitting power years ago - easiest way to develop it is circle walk for an hour everyday for 3 years. You get to the point that even a slap leaves a bruise of your fingers/hand on someone and a punch is an instant knockout - now what?
These days you can get to the point where you look at someone and see their energy, where it's blocked, what is causing the blockage and how to clear it - each person being unique in their development. I remember Yang Guotai discussing this with us back in the early days, at lunchtime when we finished training - but none of us were at a point of readiness for those lessons on energetic development. But I get now what he was saying 20 years ago and can perform many the energetic tasks he would demonstrate to us. Why is it important to be able to see these energies, to diagnose those blockages? I'll leave that up to YOU guys to figure out for the next 20 years. Energy and martial arts is not a science - it's an art. There is no exact recipe that works for everyone.

Yang Guotai hit like a f-ing sledgehammer, even on some of his lighter taps he'd deliver - he'd smack your arm so hard you fought the urge to piss your pants.
My other teacher, Dr. Yuan (living in Hongkong now) was more surgical - he'd simply paralyze you with 'dian xue' from some random qin na he'd apply - couldn't move, couldn't inhale, couldn't scream for help. His energy skills were beyond what I am capable of. He is the one with qing gong (light mastery) and I've seen him to other things I haven't discussed here, including being able to read energy accurately enough to 'read' your thoughts...before you could even formulate them into an inner dialogue. He made a bet with us once (back in '91) that we could never be able to sneak up on him. We shook on it and months went by and I'd forgotten all about it. He was standing talking to me one day and suddenly his face looked confused - a moment later he ducked down, turned and struck my friend/classmate in the balls - sent him flying back almost 10 feet right into a wall (this is the same guy that picked me up off the floor with an open palm acting like an electromagnet). He asked my friend why he tried to attack, to which my friend reminded him of the bet that we couldn't sneak up on him. Dr. Yuan smiled apologetically and explained that he couldn't really sense my classmate's intentions until he began to attack, then (in his own words) the Yang qi rises with the intent and he can sense the imminent attack from behind. My classmate said to me later "dude, as soon as I began to raise my hands up to push Dr. Yuan, next thing I know I'm weightless and I can't feel the ground beneath me until I hit the wall - I hadn't even started to attack him yet" (he was simply going to push our Shifu into me).
One time we were in a restaurant and my friend was sitting next to him - a circular table with about 10 people, in an Asian restaurant. Dr. Yuan had his back turned away from my friend, talking to someone else. I happened to glance over at my friend in time to see him, staring at a menu, and Dr. Yuan suddenly break from his discussion, turn around to whisper something to my friend, then turn back to his discussion with the other person. My friend's face lost all color - later I asked him what happened:
"dude, I was sitting there reading the menu and I thought to myself 'I wonder how you say that word in Chinese'. Suddenly your teacher turned around, told me how to pronounce it, and then turned back - but I hadn't asked him.... I had only thought the question in my head"
Another time, sitting in a restaurant with Dr. Yuan, I remembered the time his had nailed my classmate who snuck up on him from behind. I began to think to myself "I wonder if I could kick him under the table". I use the term 'began to think' because my inner thoughts got as far as formulating the sentence as "I wond-" and suddenly Dr. Yuan was tapping my knee with his foot under the table, shaking his head at me - "I don't think so" he said with a smile. I think my face lost all color.
This is just a few examples of what he was like to spend time with, both during class and in my almost daily life (I was there about 5-6 days a week at his house).

So do I figure that meditation is important? What my beliefs are is not what is important. What your beliefs are is. It will define your training. If you "don't belief that shit" you'll never train it and it doesn't matter WHAT I say otherwise. If you do embrace these concepts and 'meditate the shit outta this stuff' maybe nothing ever happens - it doesn't 'afflict' everyone. But just maybe... you'll be looking at the world from a different perspective, acknowledging secrets and gaining insights that cannot necessarily be put to words.

[meeks]

I hesitate to use the term "kundalini" as if I fully understand the term, although I have researched it for a good decade or two now. When I do use the term I tend to think more that the process is actually "awakening TO kundalini" rather than "awakening OF kundalini", where kundalini shakti means the force or energy of all life and change and movement in the manifest universe. The "mother of all things". I'd love it if there were a few Sanskrit scholars on the board so we could hear what they have to say about the origins and history of the term.

thanks Simon - I try not to get hooked on semantics though, while trying to describe what I saw/experienced occurring inside of me.

[willie]

however some MA systems was directly transmited from the heaven

This is interesting. Want to elaborate on that a bit?

[100kilos]

Meeks thanks so much for being so open. There are many things here that will have me thinking and training for a long time. Thank You.

[Dmitri]

Meeks thanks so much for being so open.

+1

If you do embrace these concepts and 'meditate the shit outta this stuff' maybe nothing ever happens - it doesn't 'afflict' everyone.

That's very true. (And a big problem, IMO.)

[willie]

you can get to the point where you look at someone and see their energy, where it's blocked, what is causing the blockage and how to clear it.

and how to attack it.