Hsing-I as a Medical Practice?

[MiaoZhen]

Henry,

could you write more about this subject, please? Namely - what differences are in various silk reeling patterns and how they stimulate specific acupuncture points? Or point to me some articles or other sources, if you can. Thanks a lot.

Miro

Hi Miro,

Well, I teach silk reeling the same way I was taught, which means that each and every pattern stimulates a specific acupuncture point (or line of points). As we practice the silk reeling the area of mental focus is on the point being stimulated. Certainly the silk reeling exercises have many layers of practice and application. But since I am primarily a medical provider and not primarily a Taiji teacher, I use them as a sort of therapeutic exercise (mostly for musculoskeletal problems).

The reference I use is in Chinese. If you can read even a bit, I highly suggest it:

http://www.amazon.com/dp/7500933738/

There was also a short article in Taiji Magazine on the topic (December 2013 issue).

I am in the process of trying to produce some short videos about my therapeutic take on the silk reeling exercises that eventually I'll post to my website (although I'm just at the beginning of the project).

Henry

[wayne hansen]

Just name one point and one exercise to give an example

[Bob]

Anecdotal evidence - my teacher and his students traveled to Jinan, Shandong province to visit relatives. His cousin introduced him to an older xing yi player who trained simply for health. He was diagnosed with a fatal illness at age 47. At the time they met him (they met him twice, two yearly visits) he was 102 and died at age 105. The xing yi practitioner attributed his health and longevity to xing yi but my guess was that his lifestyle was also a major factor. He had a couple of clips on YouTube but they removed them.

Generally I would be impressed by this with the caveat that it may not be the xing yi (most traditional Chinese medicine would not attribute such longevity to any ONE cause as the medical practice is non-reductive and more correlative).

Perhaps the practice of xing yi along with lifestyle and other factors fit this individual well and uniquely for his developing of health and longevity (maybe right combination for an optimal gene expression). His formula might not be generalizable to others.

However, for years I had been struck by the reported longevity of xing yi practitioners in Tim Cartmell's book, Xing Yi Nei Gong.

So like a court trial, I seldom find any one definitive piece of evidence that is the smoking gun but rather correlative evidence that points to a direction/horizon.

I also would never overlook Western medicine but would tread cautiously regarding who to see - not all doctors are created equal.

Unfortunately life provides few guaranteed absolutes - "ya put your money on the table and spin the wheel".

[MiaoZhen]

Just name one point and one exercise to give an example

Sure... For example, we do a silk reeling called Neck Circling (旋頸). It specifically works Da Zhui DU-14 (大椎穴). Another is Opening and Closing the Elbows (肘開闔), which works Qu Chi LI-11 (曲池穴).

Henry

[wayne hansen]

So basically if u move the body it affects the hinge

[allen2saint]

Just catching up on this topic. Would anyone care to affirm Wayne's theory? Lol...for my benefit, if not for his? Or both?

A majority of the qigong research I have looked over recently on the databases, which includes the overviews of years or research, indicates there "may" be positive results from qigong, but most say that the samples are too small to tell. No huge quantifiable successes, that's for sure.

[yeniseri]

A majority of the qigong research I have looked over recently on the databases, which includes the overviews of years or research, indicates there "may" be positive results from qigong, but most say that the samples are too small to tell. No huge quantifiable successes, that's for sure.

The results of qigong are always positive but the caveat is always that the first line of defense is one's medical doctor/professional.
Most people who allegedly claim that one does not need a doctor or that all you need to do is practice Metal energy qigong baquafist, etc, is off their rocker, to say the least.

I used to teach what is termed today "Medical Qigong" (I realize it is an oxymoron at times) but my usual methodology was for students to take on their own, any course from ACSM, NASM, etc as a way to see evolution of exercise prescription within the scope of what is termed "Medical Qigong". Many qigong professional tend to follow vague notions of fitness vis a vis their students without the slight notion of frequency, duration, the scope of disease, RPE (perceived exertion) etc so false information is passed on without any basis in reality.
My favourite setup for the Qigong can cure Cancer groups is for them to explain how that can be achieved but the responses give away their level of expertise on the matter!

I put out to that group the following:
1. You say qigong can cure cancer. OK does that mean I can take 10 cancer patients, teach them qigong then they will be cured?
or 2) For those who have no family history of cancer, does practicing qigong prevent them from any incidence of cancer in the future
or 3) For those with cancer in the family, with no expression in sibling (not diagnosed), will practicing qigong prevent the expression/incidence of cancer in those individuals.

If 4 variable (let's pretend) are involved in the cancer process, practicing qigong is just 1 variable (of 4) making it a 25% effect on cure but what about the other 75%.
Just the other dunce with a bigger dunce cap

[allen2saint]

Lol...for what its worth, Glenn's post sounds pretty reasonable as well. Sounds like a teaching method in there, I'd think, that an amateur might think was "magic" but actually sounds kind of practical...to this dunce anyway, lol.

[wayne hansen]

Once you have cancer it is pretty hard to cure with chi Kung
The diagram above is from a book called power of chi by Geoff pike
Geoff and his whife Phyllis were students of mine
Geoff in the book claims he cured cancer by doing the ba tuan chin
What he dosent mention is he had extensive chemotherepy
However the chi Kung did make his recovery much better
I might die tomorrow but I haven't seen a doctor since 1967
I think chi Kung works but I might be wrong

[neijia_boxer]

If you train just enough, not to little or not over training you will get all the health benefits of whatever IMA practice you do.

I'm coming to a conclusion that if your part of the new school of thought that focuses on the hype surrounding Fascia and fajin ability. You're not going to get far.

It is discussed over an over again in the 5 element thought that training properly is good for the blood circulation, heart and its associated tissue of the vessels (arteries and veins). Be sure you are getting your cardio in your workout otherwise you are not helping your heart and vessels.

It is discussed over and over again that the Lungs support the skin and Qi, and is responsible for getting Oxygen to the tissues. It is important to train in deep breathing methods, and training to a point of a light sweat. Include patting massage to help the skin and "cou li" layer between skin and muscles.

The same goes with the Kidneys- kidneys support the bones and marrow, marrow is also considered spinal fluid and brain (Sea of Marrow) and so it is important to train in a way that is just enough stress to make the bones resilient. Standing and stance gongs come to mind here.

Liver and spleen- Liver supports the sinews (tendon, ligaments, and cartilage) and Spleen supports the muscles. it is very important to eat well and if you are an athlete not to over train and tax these two organs. Eat plenty of healthy food and strength exercise your muscles and limbs enough not to wear them out.

What is great about training Neijia is that they do not tax, but the training also nourished the internal organs and the associated tissues they support. The movements help the proper ascending, descending, entering, and exiting of Qi and blood when trained properly.

this is a clue to the 5 elements and your health.

[wayne hansen]

If you train just enough, not to little or not over training you will get all the health benefits of whatever IMA practice you do.

I'm coming to a conclusion that if your part of the new school of thought that focuses on the hype surrounding Fascia and fajin ability. You're not going to get far.

It is discussed over an over again in the 5 element thought that training properly is good for the blood circulation, heart and its associated tissue of the vessels (arteries and veins). Be sure you are getting your cardio in your workout otherwise you are not helping your heart and vessels.

It is discussed over and over again that the Lungs support the skin and Qi, and is responsible for getting Oxygen to the tissues. It is important to train in deep breathing methods, and training to a point of a light sweat. Include patting massage to help the skin and "cou li" layer between skin and muscles.

The same goes with the Kidneys- kidneys support the bones and marrow, marrow is also considered spinal fluid and brain (Sea of Marrow) and so it is important to train in a way that is just enough stress to make the bones resilient. Standing and stance gongs come to mind here.

Liver and spleen- Liver supports the sinews (tendon, ligaments, and cartilage) and Spleen supports the muscles. it is very important to eat well and if you are an athlete not to over train and tax these two organs. Eat plenty of healthy food and strength exercise your muscles and limbs enough not to wear them out.

What is great about training Neijia is that they do not tax, but the training also nourished the internal organs and the associated tissues they support. The movements help the proper ascending, descending, entering, and exiting of Qi and blood when trained properly.

this is a clue to the 5 elements and your health.

Nice

[willywrong]

If you train just enough, not to little or not over training you will get all the health benefits of whatever IMA practice you do.

I'm coming to a conclusion that if your part of the new school of thought that focuses on the hype surrounding Fascia and fajin ability. You're not going to get far.

I think you said it all in the above, good one.

[dspyrido]

I don't think I have ever heard of hsing-i being prescribed as a cure to an ailment (e.g. oh so you got asthma or a breathing problem? Take 2 Pi's & call me in the morning). So I would not class it as a medical practise at least from a western perspective. I doubt it would even come up in chinese medicine & those thinking it cures cancer are in the same bucket as people who turn from modern medicine to take a curing course in faith healing.

It is though recommended as a preventative health excercise and there is a lot of anecdotal evidence to support it. Pretty clear many of us here recognise its value & hopefully no one is daft enough to use it as the reason not to seek professional advice if posed with health issue.

Btw peda is painful but a real compliment to forms, zz, sparring and physical conditioning (kung fu). One not to be ignored.

[wayne hansen]

Peda?

[dspyrido]

Peda?

Peda, paida, pedagong, paidagong, paida gong? Iron body. Not sure on the correct alliteration (my lack of skill in the chinese language domain) but in short the discipline of body impact conditioning and the associated mind-body-breath controls for it. D_Glen mentions it above.

D_Glen - not sure why you don't advise it. Anecdotally I think it's been a major contributor to a good bone density measure.

(Paida Gong - Patting and Hitting Exercise, is a good example to quickly get blood out but more time should be spent on the closing down part, which is often neglected and why it's not advised to practice in these later martial arts XYQ, Baguazhang.)